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what about NAPI? Or deno/buns JITed api? I’ve heard this “no C API” thing echoed by a couple people and it’s baffling. Do folks really think three major JS en

what about NAPI? Or deno/buns JITed api? I’ve heard this “no C API” thing echoed by a couple people and it’s baffling. Do folks really think three major JS engines all written in C++ wouldn’t have an interface to interact with C?

chubot 4y ago
The problem is evolving the interpreter in a way that doesn't break bazillions of third party bindings -- Win32, OpenGL, Fortran for NumPy/Pandas, databases, GPUs, every C and C++ library ever, etc. Python's C API exposes ref counting and the GIL. It's also very large JS doesn't have that problem -- more code is written in pure JS, there are no C/C++ bindings in the browser. There are C/C++ bindings in node.js for v8, but as far as I know they are discouraged and not used very much. The bindings are more "first party" in node.js than third party. They have issues, but not the same ones as CPython, because the API is very different JS VMs must be re-entrant because they're embedded in browsers. That was never the case for CPython
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- brrrrrm 4y ago
  > as far as I know they are discouraged Fwiw, this a fully stable and well documented API. It’s not even v8 exclusive, Bun cloned it for WebKit. https://nodejs.org/api/n-api.html https://nodejs.org/api/n-api.html
323 4y ago
The only C code JavaScript needs to interact with is 100% under the control of the browser implementing that JavaScript engine. JavaScript doesn't interact with random C libraries that the user might have, like Python does.
- brrrrrm 4y ago
  This is unfortunately a bit misinformed. You are thinking of a specific JavaScript implementation (browsers). The language has heavy adoption in the native space. Check out Node.js! JavaScript does interact with random C libraries :)
  - insanitybit 4y ago
    Yep, although for a very, very long time that wasn't the case.
    - brrrrrm 4y ago
      Well, that changed over a decade ago
      - insanitybit 4y ago
        But V8 and JIT'd runtimes were already standard for years by the time nodejs came out.

chubot 4y ago

The problem is evolving the interpreter in a way that doesn't break bazillions of third party bindings -- Win32, OpenGL, Fortran for NumPy/Pandas, databases, GPUs, every C and C++ library ever, etc. Python's C API exposes ref counting and the GIL. It's also very large JS doesn't have that problem -- more code is written in pure JS, there are no C/C++ bindings in the browser. There are C/C++ bindings in node.js for v8, but as far as I know they are discouraged and not used very much. The bindings are more "first party" in node.js than third party. They have issues, but not the same ones as CPython, because the API is very different JS VMs must be re-entrant because they're embedded in browsers. That was never the case for CPython

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
brrrrrm 4y ago
> as far as I know they are discouraged Fwiw, this a fully stable and well documented API. It’s not even v8 exclusive, Bun cloned it for WebKit. https://nodejs.org/api/n-api.html https://nodejs.org/api/n-api.html

323 4y ago

The only C code JavaScript needs to interact with is 100% under the control of the browser implementing that JavaScript engine. JavaScript doesn't interact with random C libraries that the user might have, like Python does.

brrrrrm 4y ago
This is unfortunately a bit misinformed. You are thinking of a specific JavaScript implementation (browsers). The language has heavy adoption in the native space. Check out Node.js! JavaScript does interact with random C libraries :)
- insanitybit 4y ago
  Yep, although for a very, very long time that wasn't the case.
  - brrrrrm 4y ago
    Well, that changed over a decade ago
    - insanitybit 4y ago
      But V8 and JIT'd runtimes were already standard for years by the time nodejs came out.