14 ms·

What Is Code? (2015)

106 points by jbredeche 4y ago

llimllib 4y ago
Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9698870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9698870
ge96 4y ago
so weird I scrolled down that page really quickly then it's asking to use my camera? hmm not trying to take away from what appears to be a great read
- periram 4y ago
  I was a little skeptical. Repeated the steps. Indeed it asks for camera access.
  - ldh0011 4y ago
    Looks like it is to take a photo for the certificate at the bottom of the page https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode/blob/master/modules/certificate/certificate.js https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode/blob/master/mod...
    - ge96 4y ago
      Oh I see. Yeah when you do a ctrl+f it doesn't say something like "let us take a picture of you" but I do see the cert at the bottom/placeholder when you decline. Suppose it could be a wow factor/adds to the interactive elements of the page.
      - ldh0011 4y ago
        Yeah it wasn't as immediately obvious to me what was going on as I think the author expected, seeing something ask for my camera unexpectedly is alarming! But the article was otherwise pretty great.
speed_spread 4y ago
Nicely illustrated article and all but title only gets me grug brain go "What is Code? Baby Don't Hurt Me! Don't Hurt Me, No More."
photochemsyn 4y ago
Given that we probably all live in a virtual simulation of some sort, isn't everything code? A more interesting question would be, "what isn't code?"
- qsort 4y ago
  Ex falso, quodlibet sequitur.
- corsac 4y ago
  I'm saving this comment so that next time someone uses "begging the question" incorrectly, I can show them what it really means.
- TuringTest 4y ago
  The argument that we likely live in a simulation is similar to the the cosmological argument that allegedly proves the existence of god; and it rests on the same unsound assumption, namely that the existence of entities in reality follows from the rational arguments that your mind can imagine about those entities. Sound approaches to knowledge must operate in the opposite direction, drawing insights from observation of phenomena existing in the world. Assuming that the world is as we deduce it to be, without then proceeding to check that the world behaves in accordance with our deduction, is a failure that delayed the advance of knowledge until the use of the scientific method became widespread.
apaprocki 4y ago
It’s on GitHub: https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode
galaxyLogic 4y ago
A great all around introduction to programming. It poses an interesting question which I think it doesn't really answer well: "What Is the Relationship Between Code and Data?" I can easily understand what a "program" is. It is a set of instructions we give to the computer for it to do something we want it to do. But what is "data"?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tejtm 4y ago
  > But what is "data"? A set of instruction activators we give the computer Oh and that easily understood set of instructions are also data
- qsort 4y ago
  Any information (including code) that can be stored by the abstract machine under consideration.
- Jtsummers 4y ago
  Data are instructions for the computer interpreted in the context of a program. Or no program in the case of instructions which can be interpreted directly by the computer. That is, data are programs, programs are data. Just need to establish the environment in which to execute/process them.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    Right, except what got me thinking is that "programs" can be conceptually seen as a sequence of "instructions" to the computer. Whereas it is more difficult to think of data as "instructions". Data is more like a model of the world, than a set of "instructions".
    - Jtsummers 4y ago
      It is, but it also influences how the software and hardware actually execute, making it a kind of program. Essentially every program that accepts any kind of data is really operating as a virtual machine, a software specified computer. It interprets the data and performs actions conditioned on that input. mp3 files are instructions to an audio producing "computer", mp4 to an audio/video "computer". Whether it's a software description of the machine or a hardware implementation. Zip files are data, but when run through a decompression program they determine what gets decompressed (the program determines how) making them instructions for the decompression computer. The text of a text file opened in an editor providing rendering instructions. TCP packets are data, but they influence the TCP state machine, which is an explicit rendering of the idea that the software (sometimes hardware in this case) is describing a computer and the data (packets) represent instructions that effect the state of that computer. However, this interpretation is usually not explicit so the manner of these virtual machines is ad hoc and ill-specified (if at all).
thundergolfer 4y ago
If anyone has a the print issue of this I’d like to buy it. One was on EBay a little while ago for about $60 I think
- jrimbault 4y ago
  I was also looking for one (well, two) yesterday... even sent bloomberg a mail to ask if backorder was still possible (they said no and to check amazon/ebay/etc).
klse 4y ago
baby don't hurt me
DeathArrow 4y ago
Code is a context free grammar. If we want to be more restrictive, we can call it a finite state automaton.
bmitc 4y ago
This is a somewhat myopic and outdated description of what "code" or "software" is. I'm writing an article on this, but software is a much broader idea and domain than just getting computers to do something. At a minimum, it includes getting a computer to do something, communicating between humans and not humans and computers, and encoding a domain. All this adds up to software being "executable knowledge", which makes it far more powerful than thinking of it as just bits executing on a machine. Thinking of it this way also highlights all the problems with software, because the process of system design and encoding knowledge is downright hard and not something humans excel at. Getting a computer to do something is rarely the hard part aside from specific instances where pure performance is necessary. It isn't surprising to me that the best software developers I have met have been those who either had no computer science degree or got it after having some degree or major interest in another field, typically a liberal arts or science field. Liberal arts are actually the study of systems in disguise because of the need to connect together various ideas, events, etc. that do not necessarily have clear delineations or relationships.
- the_af 4y ago
  Are you equating "computer science" with "coding"? Because it's really not. CS studies systems, complexity, requirements, domain knowledge, etc. I'm not arguing against people from other fields bringing valuable insight; I'm disputing that CS doesn't also involve the study of complex heterogeneous systems or that it is about "coding". Seems like you're describing a bootcamp or coding school instead.
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    CS doesn't. At least not in any useful way. Systems Analysis and Knowledge Engineering typically assume corporate/industrial philosophies and goals. Broader human considerations - political, social, cultural - are very peripheral in CS. They get some token attention but they're always subservient to business values. The idea that software is primarily about human relations of all kinds is novel and rather subversive.
    - 4y ago
kubanczyk 4y ago
I didn't really read beyond that reflection: > This is real. A Scrum Master in ninja socks has come into your office and said, “We’ve got to budget for apps.” Should it all go pear-shaped, his career will be just fine. It's funny how organizations manage not to fall apart with so many people with so different motivations. For example, an SWE can despair in 2022 because they work on Openstack bugfixing or on mainframe JCL2 batch jobs, but here this exec worries about his position being undermined by some software project.
ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
This story reminds me of the old Parable of The Toaster: http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html
lll-o-lll 4y ago
I know it when I see it.
redog 4y ago
TIL that I should specialize in security research.
100069912261242 4y ago
ytwombly 4y ago
First, bear in mind this isn't written for a technical audience. Nevertheless, it's worth the time if you finish it. Case in point: when this was first published, I was just starting out my career writing software, and knew very little about the industry I was entering. 7ish years later, I still think about it often.

106 points by jbredeche 4y ago

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9698870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9698870

ge96 4y ago

so weird I scrolled down that page really quickly then it's asking to use my camera? hmm not trying to take away from what appears to be a great read

periram 4y ago
I was a little skeptical. Repeated the steps. Indeed it asks for camera access.
- ldh0011 4y ago
  Looks like it is to take a photo for the certificate at the bottom of the page https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode/blob/master/modules/certificate/certificate.js https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode/blob/master/mod...
  - ge96 4y ago
    Oh I see. Yeah when you do a ctrl+f it doesn't say something like "let us take a picture of you" but I do see the cert at the bottom/placeholder when you decline. Suppose it could be a wow factor/adds to the interactive elements of the page.
    - ldh0011 4y ago
      Yeah it wasn't as immediately obvious to me what was going on as I think the author expected, seeing something ask for my camera unexpectedly is alarming! But the article was otherwise pretty great.

speed_spread 4y ago

Nicely illustrated article and all but title only gets me grug brain go "What is Code? Baby Don't Hurt Me! Don't Hurt Me, No More."

photochemsyn 4y ago

Given that we probably all live in a virtual simulation of some sort, isn't everything code? A more interesting question would be, "what isn't code?"

qsort 4y ago
Ex falso, quodlibet sequitur.
corsac 4y ago
I'm saving this comment so that next time someone uses "begging the question" incorrectly, I can show them what it really means.
TuringTest 4y ago
The argument that we likely live in a simulation is similar to the the cosmological argument that allegedly proves the existence of god; and it rests on the same unsound assumption, namely that the existence of entities in reality follows from the rational arguments that your mind can imagine about those entities. Sound approaches to knowledge must operate in the opposite direction, drawing insights from observation of phenomena existing in the world. Assuming that the world is as we deduce it to be, without then proceeding to check that the world behaves in accordance with our deduction, is a failure that delayed the advance of knowledge until the use of the scientific method became widespread.

apaprocki 4y ago

It’s on GitHub: https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode https://github.com/BloombergMedia/whatiscode

galaxyLogic 4y ago

A great all around introduction to programming. It poses an interesting question which I think it doesn't really answer well: "What Is the Relationship Between Code and Data?" I can easily understand what a "program" is. It is a set of instructions we give to the computer for it to do something we want it to do. But what is "data"?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tejtm 4y ago
> But what is "data"? A set of instruction activators we give the computer Oh and that easily understood set of instructions are also data
qsort 4y ago
Any information (including code) that can be stored by the abstract machine under consideration.
Jtsummers 4y ago
Data are instructions for the computer interpreted in the context of a program. Or no program in the case of instructions which can be interpreted directly by the computer. That is, data are programs, programs are data. Just need to establish the environment in which to execute/process them.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  Right, except what got me thinking is that "programs" can be conceptually seen as a sequence of "instructions" to the computer. Whereas it is more difficult to think of data as "instructions". Data is more like a model of the world, than a set of "instructions".
  - Jtsummers 4y ago
    It is, but it also influences how the software and hardware actually execute, making it a kind of program. Essentially every program that accepts any kind of data is really operating as a virtual machine, a software specified computer. It interprets the data and performs actions conditioned on that input. mp3 files are instructions to an audio producing "computer", mp4 to an audio/video "computer". Whether it's a software description of the machine or a hardware implementation. Zip files are data, but when run through a decompression program they determine what gets decompressed (the program determines how) making them instructions for the decompression computer. The text of a text file opened in an editor providing rendering instructions. TCP packets are data, but they influence the TCP state machine, which is an explicit rendering of the idea that the software (sometimes hardware in this case) is describing a computer and the data (packets) represent instructions that effect the state of that computer. However, this interpretation is usually not explicit so the manner of these virtual machines is ad hoc and ill-specified (if at all).

thundergolfer 4y ago

If anyone has a the print issue of this I’d like to buy it. One was on EBay a little while ago for about $60 I think

jrimbault 4y ago
I was also looking for one (well, two) yesterday... even sent bloomberg a mail to ask if backorder was still possible (they said no and to check amazon/ebay/etc).

klse 4y ago

baby don't hurt me

DeathArrow 4y ago

Code is a context free grammar. If we want to be more restrictive, we can call it a finite state automaton.

bmitc 4y ago

This is a somewhat myopic and outdated description of what "code" or "software" is. I'm writing an article on this, but software is a much broader idea and domain than just getting computers to do something. At a minimum, it includes getting a computer to do something, communicating between humans and not humans and computers, and encoding a domain. All this adds up to software being "executable knowledge", which makes it far more powerful than thinking of it as just bits executing on a machine. Thinking of it this way also highlights all the problems with software, because the process of system design and encoding knowledge is downright hard and not something humans excel at. Getting a computer to do something is rarely the hard part aside from specific instances where pure performance is necessary. It isn't surprising to me that the best software developers I have met have been those who either had no computer science degree or got it after having some degree or major interest in another field, typically a liberal arts or science field. Liberal arts are actually the study of systems in disguise because of the need to connect together various ideas, events, etc. that do not necessarily have clear delineations or relationships.

the_af 4y ago
Are you equating "computer science" with "coding"? Because it's really not. CS studies systems, complexity, requirements, domain knowledge, etc. I'm not arguing against people from other fields bringing valuable insight; I'm disputing that CS doesn't also involve the study of complex heterogeneous systems or that it is about "coding". Seems like you're describing a bootcamp or coding school instead.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  CS doesn't. At least not in any useful way. Systems Analysis and Knowledge Engineering typically assume corporate/industrial philosophies and goals. Broader human considerations - political, social, cultural - are very peripheral in CS. They get some token attention but they're always subservient to business values. The idea that software is primarily about human relations of all kinds is novel and rather subversive.
  - 4y ago

kubanczyk 4y ago

I didn't really read beyond that reflection: > This is real. A Scrum Master in ninja socks has come into your office and said, “We’ve got to budget for apps.” Should it all go pear-shaped, his career will be just fine. It's funny how organizations manage not to fall apart with so many people with so different motivations. For example, an SWE can despair in 2022 because they work on Openstack bugfixing or on mainframe JCL2 batch jobs, but here this exec worries about his position being undermined by some software project.

ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago

This story reminds me of the old Parable of The Toaster: http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html http://www.solipsys.co.uk/new/TheParableOfTheToaster.html

lll-o-lll 4y ago

I know it when I see it.

redog 4y ago

TIL that I should specialize in security research.

100069912261242 4y ago

ytwombly 4y ago

First, bear in mind this isn't written for a technical audience. Nevertheless, it's worth the time if you finish it. Case in point: when this was first published, I was just starting out my career writing software, and knew very little about the industry I was entering. 7ish years later, I still think about it often.