5 ms·

Linux on the desktop

by _chu1 4y ago

Mikeb85 4y ago
Has been working just fine for at least a decade...
- fsflover 4y ago
  Then (GNU/)Linux on the phone.
  - mariusor 4y ago
    Sailfish OS wants a word. Been running it since 2013 and before that it was Meego (also a full GNU/Linux distro) running on Nokia N9.
- neoberg 4y ago
  No. There are still missing -important- stuff and "works but you have to stand on your hands while singing" kind of things. It's nowhere near being friendly to an end user unless someone picks and sets up the hardware and the software for them.
  - fsflover 4y ago
    Linux is problematic on hardware designed for other operating systems. My Librem 15 works flawlessly, including suspend and WiFi (without even any binary blobs).
    - neoberg 4y ago
      Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. You have to know which devices play well with linux to have a relatively good experience.
      - fsflover 4y ago
        So buy preinstalled?
  - stormbeard 4y ago
    Care to share some examples for the people who don’t share your opinion?
    - neoberg 4y ago
      The biggest thing keeping me from using Linux for my desktop pc right now is lack of HDR support. Apart from that the whole display servers world is just not working well. Some things still don't support Wayland, you can't share screen easily, X has it's own issues etc. HiDPI is still problematic with both; you get weird scaling issues with apps and and the occasional humongous mouse cursor. Using multiple displays with different DPIs you again get scaling issues. Setting up multiple displays still requires fiddling with xrandr, xinerama etc. Just let me know if you need more examples. I tried to fully switch to Linux many times spending lots of time + money (bought one of the "recommended" devices).
      - boring_twenties 4y ago
        Multiple displays have worked out of the box for me for over a decade. Nothing fancy here, just X11 with the plain jane MATE desktop (and Gnome 2 before that.)
        neoberg 4y ago
        Multiple displays works well if both displays have the same or similar dpis. When they are different like one is hidpi and the other one is not, you get scaling issues.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        > The biggest thing keeping me from using Linux for my desktop pc right now is lack of HDR support. HDR is just a marketing term for software that increases the colour and black saturation of content beyond the actual input. For photography that means more saturation than what you see in real life, for video that means tweaking it after you receive the signal. An OS can't "support" or not support HDR; if a video has HDR and your display has the dynamic range then you'll see it in "HDR". Unless you actually want your OS to post-process everything on the screen to have marginally higher contrast than normal? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/what-is-hdr-in-windows-11-f5fbf5cb-149d-4a0d-8be1-9ed78c68d3b4 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/what-is-hdr-in-w... https://www.pcworld.com/article/546269/auto-hdr-deep-dive-how-and-why-to-use-windows-11s-eye-catching-game-feature.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/546269/auto-hdr-deep-dive-ho... > Setting up multiple displays still requires fiddling with xrandr, xinerama etc. Dunno what you're doing but you can literally just plug in another display and it'll work... And per-monitor scaling works on Ubuntu/Gnome.
  - yamtaddle 4y ago
    Can confirm, I try it every couple years and the jank and crashiness/glitchiness (application-level, not the kernel) still make me regret it in a matter of hours. Ran Linux for years on laptops and desktops but just had no idea how much time I was wasting, working around things it couldn't do or fixing broken shit or just living with some stuff not functioning correctly. Every time I go back I find it's the same. Whole foundation of the GUI stack and UI toolkit(s, which is part of the problem) need a tasteful, high-quality ground-up rethink and Wayland sure as hell ain't it.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    > and "works but you have to stand on your hands while singing" kind of things. You mean "works if you don't actively try to break it". Most stories about Linux breakage involve esoteric distros (especially bleeding edge "rolling" distros or one-man Ubuntu-derived distros) and users trying to "customize" shit they shouldn't. Install Ubuntu and it's fine.
    - neoberg 4y ago
      > You mean "works if you don't actively try to break it". No I mean "if you don't want to share your screen"
- loufe 4y ago
  I second the "no". I have given Linux 3 tries (several months, and a lot of patience) over the last 10 years and each time I've had to ship back to windows at some point. It's not there.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Not much info in this comment. I've "tried" Windows too and simply can't deal with how terrible it is.
    - _chu1 4y ago
      Trust me, I don't use Windows either. Fedora KDE here and I still can say the desktop is not perfect.
- _chu1 4y ago
  Except for some reason nobody uses it still, wonder why...
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    No one uses PCs anymore... Relatively speaking. Ever checked in on the youth lately? It's all smartphones, game consoles, iPads. Students will use MacBooks/Laptops/Chromebooks for school if their course requires one but "devices" are the main computing device nowadays. Heck, even many non-technical business people have switched to iPads. Kiosks? Tablets. The PC is no longer "the" personal computing device...
    - _chu1 4y ago
      I'm 14 and use a PC
peter-m80 4y ago
no issues here

Linux on the desktop

by _chu1 4y ago

Linux on the desktop

Mikeb85 4y ago

Has been working just fine for at least a decade...

fsflover 4y ago
Then (GNU/)Linux on the phone.
- mariusor 4y ago
  Sailfish OS wants a word. Been running it since 2013 and before that it was Meego (also a full GNU/Linux distro) running on Nokia N9.
neoberg 4y ago
No. There are still missing -important- stuff and "works but you have to stand on your hands while singing" kind of things. It's nowhere near being friendly to an end user unless someone picks and sets up the hardware and the software for them.
- fsflover 4y ago
  Linux is problematic on hardware designed for other operating systems. My Librem 15 works flawlessly, including suspend and WiFi (without even any binary blobs).
  - neoberg 4y ago
    Yes, this is exactly what I'm saying. You have to know which devices play well with linux to have a relatively good experience.
    - fsflover 4y ago
      So buy preinstalled?
- stormbeard 4y ago
  Care to share some examples for the people who don’t share your opinion?
  - neoberg 4y ago
    The biggest thing keeping me from using Linux for my desktop pc right now is lack of HDR support. Apart from that the whole display servers world is just not working well. Some things still don't support Wayland, you can't share screen easily, X has it's own issues etc. HiDPI is still problematic with both; you get weird scaling issues with apps and and the occasional humongous mouse cursor. Using multiple displays with different DPIs you again get scaling issues. Setting up multiple displays still requires fiddling with xrandr, xinerama etc. Just let me know if you need more examples. I tried to fully switch to Linux many times spending lots of time + money (bought one of the "recommended" devices).
    - boring_twenties 4y ago
      Multiple displays have worked out of the box for me for over a decade. Nothing fancy here, just X11 with the plain jane MATE desktop (and Gnome 2 before that.)
      - neoberg 4y ago
        Multiple displays works well if both displays have the same or similar dpis. When they are different like one is hidpi and the other one is not, you get scaling issues.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      > The biggest thing keeping me from using Linux for my desktop pc right now is lack of HDR support. HDR is just a marketing term for software that increases the colour and black saturation of content beyond the actual input. For photography that means more saturation than what you see in real life, for video that means tweaking it after you receive the signal. An OS can't "support" or not support HDR; if a video has HDR and your display has the dynamic range then you'll see it in "HDR". Unless you actually want your OS to post-process everything on the screen to have marginally higher contrast than normal? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/what-is-hdr-in-windows-11-f5fbf5cb-149d-4a0d-8be1-9ed78c68d3b4 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/what-is-hdr-in-w... https://www.pcworld.com/article/546269/auto-hdr-deep-dive-how-and-why-to-use-windows-11s-eye-catching-game-feature.html https://www.pcworld.com/article/546269/auto-hdr-deep-dive-ho... > Setting up multiple displays still requires fiddling with xrandr, xinerama etc. Dunno what you're doing but you can literally just plug in another display and it'll work... And per-monitor scaling works on Ubuntu/Gnome.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Can confirm, I try it every couple years and the jank and crashiness/glitchiness (application-level, not the kernel) still make me regret it in a matter of hours. Ran Linux for years on laptops and desktops but just had no idea how much time I was wasting, working around things it couldn't do or fixing broken shit or just living with some stuff not functioning correctly. Every time I go back I find it's the same. Whole foundation of the GUI stack and UI toolkit(s, which is part of the problem) need a tasteful, high-quality ground-up rethink and Wayland sure as hell ain't it.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  > and "works but you have to stand on your hands while singing" kind of things. You mean "works if you don't actively try to break it". Most stories about Linux breakage involve esoteric distros (especially bleeding edge "rolling" distros or one-man Ubuntu-derived distros) and users trying to "customize" shit they shouldn't. Install Ubuntu and it's fine.
  - neoberg 4y ago
    > You mean "works if you don't actively try to break it". No I mean "if you don't want to share your screen"
loufe 4y ago
I second the "no". I have given Linux 3 tries (several months, and a lot of patience) over the last 10 years and each time I've had to ship back to windows at some point. It's not there.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  Not much info in this comment. I've "tried" Windows too and simply can't deal with how terrible it is.
  - _chu1 4y ago
    Trust me, I don't use Windows either. Fedora KDE here and I still can say the desktop is not perfect.
_chu1 4y ago
Except for some reason nobody uses it still, wonder why...
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  No one uses PCs anymore... Relatively speaking. Ever checked in on the youth lately? It's all smartphones, game consoles, iPads. Students will use MacBooks/Laptops/Chromebooks for school if their course requires one but "devices" are the main computing device nowadays. Heck, even many non-technical business people have switched to iPads. Kiosks? Tablets. The PC is no longer "the" personal computing device...
  - _chu1 4y ago
    I'm 14 and use a PC

peter-m80 4y ago

no issues here