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To everyone who worked on System Settings, you put in a ton of work, and you're all very talented to ship something in a new framework (SwiftUI) that has gone o

To everyone who worked on System Settings, you put in a ton of work, and you're all very talented to ship something in a new framework (SwiftUI) that has gone on to millions of devices. I only have one question: who was in charge of the thumbs up / thumbs down on this new design? Was it Craig Federighi? You all did amazing work with the tools offered - SwiftUI makes the side bar navigation and simple cell table views the easiest to iterate and create - and you all achieved that. Someone should have stepped up though and waited till next OS release for a change like this (with the new SwiftUI layouts, etc) - or potentially not touched it - or explain in depth why a side bar makes sense for settings, the most cognitively demanding part of an OS now with superfluous information on the side? That's critical real estate to lose, then doubly hurtful with visual clutter / something were expected to ignore.

deafpolygon 4y ago
They wanted to catch up and copy Microsoft...
timw4mail 4y ago
I don't see the point of the change. It looks too much like iOS.
- akmarinov 4y ago
  Rumor is macOS is coming to iPads, so makes more sense when you think of it that way
  - timw4mail 4y ago
    So ruin macOS for the sake of inferior hardware.
    - russelg 4y ago
      Inferior hardware? The iPad Pro has the same CPU as a Macbook...
      - behnamoh 4y ago
        Beg to disagree. There’s only so much computation a handheld device can support, regardless of its nominal CPU.
      - timw4mail 4y ago
        Keyboard and trackpad/mouse is a huge difference from only a touchscreen.
        dividedbyzero 4y ago
        Don't iPads have that as well via the official case?
        filoleg 4y ago
        You are correct, they do, via the official keyboard/trackpad case. Or you can even just connect any other bluetooth keyboard+trackpad (including the dedicated magic keyboard+trackpad for macs). And most of the keyboard+trackpad shortcuts/gestures are already the same on both macOS and iPadOS
    - omnibrain 4y ago
      Windows 8 all over again.
    - barkerja 4y ago
      This is far from "ruining macOS". System Settings was one of the few areas of the OS that hadn't been updated in forever. This was long overdue.
      - als0 4y ago
        Just because it hasn't been updated in forever doesn't mean it needs to be. I get the feeling that people get bored with a design and expect a design refresh.
        kergonath 4y ago
        It hasn’t been updated and was really bad. It made sense back in 10.2 or so, but now every preference pane has tabs and buttons for modal dialogs and stuff. It needed about twice as many panes for each one to be manageable, and the icons palette does not scale that far (it’s actually quite confusing now on Monterrey, where all icons are very similar). The new one is not perfect. For example, the on/off switches are ugly and the layout is far from great, and I like “preferences” better than “settings”, which makes more sense for an appliance than for something you adapt to your liking. But the old one was very much not “not broken”.
- barkerja 4y ago
  The previous System Settings UI was long overdue an update. While the new UI does very much resemble macOS, I don't see that as an issue, as it works very well in this context. At least, I believe it does, but I am no UI/UX expert.
  - timw4mail 4y ago
    Why? Did it function poorly? I'm a bit sick of the idea that something has to be changed because it hasn't for a while.
    - dividedbyzero 4y ago
      > Did it function poorly? I've never been able to find what I needed quickly in the old UI, always felt disorganized and random. I like the one on the iPad a lot better, I find it way easier to navigate, so I'm happy for the change.
    - barkerja 4y ago
      Over the years, more options were added to the system settings, and the old UI did not lend itself well to holding all those various options/configurations. It became a burden to find exactly what you were needing; not to mention it was beginning to look "out of place" with the rest of the OS. So yes, it functioned poorly, while also looking terrible by today's standards.
- reacharavindh 4y ago
  May be that was the point… Apple trying to make MacOS a little more like iOS, and ipadOS a little more like MacOS, and then boom… transition to commonality between iPad and Mac. Stage manager definitely gives me that vibes. Apple trying very hard to make the UX feel same in a laptop and iPad.
vanilla_nut 4y ago
I hope the SwiftUI devs have accessibility improvements planned for the next year. So many of the SwiftUI GUIs have little or no keyboard support: you have to use the mouse. I know accessibility isn't a sexy feature to work on, but all it takes is one little black swan misfortune and you're plunged deep into the purgatory of NEEDING accessibility features. Sidenote: I wonder if we'll one day see government enforcement of software akin to the physical spaces governed by the ADA.
- jffry 4y ago
  > Sidenote: I wonder if we'll one day see government enforcement of software akin to the physical spaces governed by the ADA. I should think large tech companies would be happy to advocate for such regulation, because it creates another (small) barrier to entry for competitors
crazygringo 4y ago
> explain in depth why a side bar makes sense for settings, the most cognitively demanding part of an OS now with superfluous information on the side? That's critical real estate to lose What are you talking about? First of all, there's zero "critical real estate" to lose. Settings doesn't, and never has, taken up even close to full screen width on any regular laptop/monitor. And it still doesn't. Literally nothing is lost. Second, why doesn't it make sense? The previous icon palette was a usability disaster. I'd spend 15 seconds hunting for which damned icon I was looking for each time. The sidebar has much more logical groupings. Plus, when you follow a button/link in one panel that leads to a different panel (e.g. accessibility to keyboard, or vice-versa) it's clear visually where you are now, because a new category in the sidebar is highlighted. And I just have no idea what visual clutter you're talking about either. Do you find tab bars at the top of a dialog to also be clutter? Do you find the menu bar to be clutter? Because this works the same as both of those.
- anonymouse008 4y ago
  A screen only has so many pixels, every pixel matters. Further, is System Settings the only window open at the time? When are you usually entering the panel? Is it to achieve a specific aim when other windows are also open? or to browse and learn features? ... list goes on ... I attribute System Preference's failure to be not creating additional icons and groupings that were properly descriptive and respectful of user use - for example: Gatekeeper should have been its own icon, not buried inside of Privacy and Security, then under a separate tab. From my experience, it was the primary feature to access within preferences. Further, yes, many improvements should have been made to Preferences, no doubt - Settings doesn't seem it though. Settings doesn't make sense because the sidebar assumes a 'full screen / most of screen at golden aspect ratios' paradigm for the active window - which is absolutely not true for System Settings on Mac. More clearly: the sidebar works well when your mind can 'group' the edge of the bar, with the edge of the device. This works wonderfully for iPad - your mind can 'section off' without much mental effort. It's how excel usually works too - what madman would use excel at the aspect ratio of System Settings? You now have a vertical and horizontal visual plane to mentally track - that also doesn't align in it's own window (what is Search, AppleID Profile Pic, etc doing anchoring the layout at top left) - and now all the controls are basically outlined table cells with weird choices for the controls. Try going to Desktop & Dock and identify what exactly are the groupings for the tables for 'Dock'? now I have to figure that out, too?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

deafpolygon 4y ago

They wanted to catch up and copy Microsoft...

timw4mail 4y ago

I don't see the point of the change. It looks too much like iOS.

akmarinov 4y ago
Rumor is macOS is coming to iPads, so makes more sense when you think of it that way
- timw4mail 4y ago
  So ruin macOS for the sake of inferior hardware.
  - russelg 4y ago
    Inferior hardware? The iPad Pro has the same CPU as a Macbook...
    - behnamoh 4y ago
      Beg to disagree. There’s only so much computation a handheld device can support, regardless of its nominal CPU.
    - timw4mail 4y ago
      Keyboard and trackpad/mouse is a huge difference from only a touchscreen.
      - dividedbyzero 4y ago
        Don't iPads have that as well via the official case?
        filoleg 4y ago
        You are correct, they do, via the official keyboard/trackpad case. Or you can even just connect any other bluetooth keyboard+trackpad (including the dedicated magic keyboard+trackpad for macs). And most of the keyboard+trackpad shortcuts/gestures are already the same on both macOS and iPadOS
  - omnibrain 4y ago
    Windows 8 all over again.
  - barkerja 4y ago
    This is far from "ruining macOS". System Settings was one of the few areas of the OS that hadn't been updated in forever. This was long overdue.
    - als0 4y ago
      Just because it hasn't been updated in forever doesn't mean it needs to be. I get the feeling that people get bored with a design and expect a design refresh.
      - kergonath 4y ago
        It hasn’t been updated and was really bad. It made sense back in 10.2 or so, but now every preference pane has tabs and buttons for modal dialogs and stuff. It needed about twice as many panes for each one to be manageable, and the icons palette does not scale that far (it’s actually quite confusing now on Monterrey, where all icons are very similar). The new one is not perfect. For example, the on/off switches are ugly and the layout is far from great, and I like “preferences” better than “settings”, which makes more sense for an appliance than for something you adapt to your liking. But the old one was very much not “not broken”.
barkerja 4y ago
The previous System Settings UI was long overdue an update. While the new UI does very much resemble macOS, I don't see that as an issue, as it works very well in this context. At least, I believe it does, but I am no UI/UX expert.
- timw4mail 4y ago
  Why? Did it function poorly? I'm a bit sick of the idea that something has to be changed because it hasn't for a while.
  - dividedbyzero 4y ago
    > Did it function poorly? I've never been able to find what I needed quickly in the old UI, always felt disorganized and random. I like the one on the iPad a lot better, I find it way easier to navigate, so I'm happy for the change.
  - barkerja 4y ago
    Over the years, more options were added to the system settings, and the old UI did not lend itself well to holding all those various options/configurations. It became a burden to find exactly what you were needing; not to mention it was beginning to look "out of place" with the rest of the OS. So yes, it functioned poorly, while also looking terrible by today's standards.
reacharavindh 4y ago
May be that was the point… Apple trying to make MacOS a little more like iOS, and ipadOS a little more like MacOS, and then boom… transition to commonality between iPad and Mac. Stage manager definitely gives me that vibes. Apple trying very hard to make the UX feel same in a laptop and iPad.

vanilla_nut 4y ago

I hope the SwiftUI devs have accessibility improvements planned for the next year. So many of the SwiftUI GUIs have little or no keyboard support: you have to use the mouse. I know accessibility isn't a sexy feature to work on, but all it takes is one little black swan misfortune and you're plunged deep into the purgatory of NEEDING accessibility features. Sidenote: I wonder if we'll one day see government enforcement of software akin to the physical spaces governed by the ADA.

jffry 4y ago
> Sidenote: I wonder if we'll one day see government enforcement of software akin to the physical spaces governed by the ADA. I should think large tech companies would be happy to advocate for such regulation, because it creates another (small) barrier to entry for competitors

crazygringo 4y ago

> explain in depth why a side bar makes sense for settings, the most cognitively demanding part of an OS now with superfluous information on the side? That's critical real estate to lose What are you talking about? First of all, there's zero "critical real estate" to lose. Settings doesn't, and never has, taken up even close to full screen width on any regular laptop/monitor. And it still doesn't. Literally nothing is lost. Second, why doesn't it make sense? The previous icon palette was a usability disaster. I'd spend 15 seconds hunting for which damned icon I was looking for each time. The sidebar has much more logical groupings. Plus, when you follow a button/link in one panel that leads to a different panel (e.g. accessibility to keyboard, or vice-versa) it's clear visually where you are now, because a new category in the sidebar is highlighted. And I just have no idea what visual clutter you're talking about either. Do you find tab bars at the top of a dialog to also be clutter? Do you find the menu bar to be clutter? Because this works the same as both of those.

anonymouse008 4y ago
A screen only has so many pixels, every pixel matters. Further, is System Settings the only window open at the time? When are you usually entering the panel? Is it to achieve a specific aim when other windows are also open? or to browse and learn features? ... list goes on ... I attribute System Preference's failure to be not creating additional icons and groupings that were properly descriptive and respectful of user use - for example: Gatekeeper should have been its own icon, not buried inside of Privacy and Security, then under a separate tab. From my experience, it was the primary feature to access within preferences. Further, yes, many improvements should have been made to Preferences, no doubt - Settings doesn't seem it though. Settings doesn't make sense because the sidebar assumes a 'full screen / most of screen at golden aspect ratios' paradigm for the active window - which is absolutely not true for System Settings on Mac. More clearly: the sidebar works well when your mind can 'group' the edge of the bar, with the edge of the device. This works wonderfully for iPad - your mind can 'section off' without much mental effort. It's how excel usually works too - what madman would use excel at the aspect ratio of System Settings? You now have a vertical and horizontal visual plane to mentally track - that also doesn't align in it's own window (what is Search, AppleID Profile Pic, etc doing anchoring the layout at top left) - and now all the controls are basically outlined table cells with weird choices for the controls. Try going to Desktop & Dock and identify what exactly are the groupings for the tables for 'Dock'? now I have to figure that out, too?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]