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> edit: and for the record if your messages on a dating app are not E2E encrypted then you are making a terrible mistake. I can't believe anyone would voluntari

> edit: and for the record if your messages on a dating app are not E2E encrypted then you are making a terrible mistake. I can't believe anyone would voluntarily make this decision. Reality goes something like this: You roll out your E2EE dating app, it gets successful, you're winning bigly. Then cops show up with an order from a judge demanding you hand over information regarding user #890202 because they are suspected of using your platform to entice minors into sexual activity. This is usually where the E2EE worship falls flat, for legitimate societal reason. If you want E2EE you need to use a dedicated app specifically ONLY for that (Signal, WhatsApp, etc). Any time you bolt on other business or incentives and then use E2EE as the messaging platform you will discover a world of pain in my opinion.

onetimeusename 4y ago
it's always that isn't it? They could go raid the guy's home perhaps. Alternatively you sent embarrassing messages to a woman on a dating app, you have a weird fetish you discussed with someone on there, you're cheating on your wife, or maybe some nation-state actor wants some blackmail on you. A hacker or disgruntled employee has dumped a database of all the messages and journalists and Twitter users are going through it right now. Or maybe you don't trust Bumble. They seem to have an axe to grind anyway. Not that the issue of minors isn't a problem but I don't think that should always override people's privacy. And FWIW there is plenty of space for people to share compromising messages on the dating app before they can manage to convince a stranger to download Signal and continue the conversation there. That's if you're lucky enough that she doesn't immediately think you are a scammer of some kind. I am on the side of privacy extremists but a lot of people find that to be a nonstarter so to each their own. I wouldn't dare go on a dating app that didn't have E2EE though or at least a way to anonymize yourself so no phone # required. ;)
- iwillbenice 4y ago
  I think privacy-first is the the correct mental model to have. I've had to explain to some people that the usage of a certain platform by drug dealers, pedophiles, and organized violent crime isn't a defect, but really a feature in theory. If the tech or platform sucked/was-compromised, they wouldn't gravitate towards it. It is a weird conversation, but most people do seem to grok it in that sense.

onetimeusename 4y ago

it's always that isn't it? They could go raid the guy's home perhaps. Alternatively you sent embarrassing messages to a woman on a dating app, you have a weird fetish you discussed with someone on there, you're cheating on your wife, or maybe some nation-state actor wants some blackmail on you. A hacker or disgruntled employee has dumped a database of all the messages and journalists and Twitter users are going through it right now. Or maybe you don't trust Bumble. They seem to have an axe to grind anyway. Not that the issue of minors isn't a problem but I don't think that should always override people's privacy. And FWIW there is plenty of space for people to share compromising messages on the dating app before they can manage to convince a stranger to download Signal and continue the conversation there. That's if you're lucky enough that she doesn't immediately think you are a scammer of some kind. I am on the side of privacy extremists but a lot of people find that to be a nonstarter so to each their own. I wouldn't dare go on a dating app that didn't have E2EE though or at least a way to anonymize yourself so no phone # required. ;)

iwillbenice 4y ago
I think privacy-first is the the correct mental model to have. I've had to explain to some people that the usage of a certain platform by drug dealers, pedophiles, and organized violent crime isn't a defect, but really a feature in theory. If the tech or platform sucked/was-compromised, they wouldn't gravitate towards it. It is a weird conversation, but most people do seem to grok it in that sense.