3 ms·

The better error messages alone make it worthwhile to upgrade. The trend started in 3.10, and it already made a difference for me, my coworkers and students. B

The better error messages alone make it worthwhile to upgrade. The trend started in 3.10, and it already made a difference for me, my coworkers and students. But remember that while it's great to play with it freshly out of the oven, and that you might want to test your projects/libs with it, we should wait a bit before migrating production. Indeed, every first release of a new major version of Python eventually important bugs that get ironed out in a later patch. Also, some libs on pypi may simply not be compatible with it yet, breaking your pip install. I usually wait until the 3rd patch myself, after many years of paying the price of greedy upgrades.

thejosh 4y ago
Once everything gets wheels/bumped, it'll be a lot easier. The last few major versions have been fairly straight forward to upgrade once they're all in place, and the nice thing is this should hopefully fix any remaining packages that aren't built for the arm64 macs.
snvzz 4y ago
Once 3.12 is out, perhaps it'll be time to move to 3.11.x.
4m1rk 4y ago
> I usually wait until the 3rd patch myself, after many years of paying the price of greedy upgrades. We wouldn't get there if everyone does that though.
- fluidcruft 4y ago
  Why not? Production isn't where bugs should be found. Plenty of time to test things before production.
  - bravetraveler 4y ago
    To be fair to who you're replying to, this did basically start with "new version -> production" Not much room left for integration/development and so on I pick these things up early in lower environments, as I suppose you do, so that the real production upgrade isn't scary... and we don't fall behind Waiting forever for the community to QA doesn't work, you probably aren't running exactly what they are
  - 4m1rk 4y ago
    Maybe what I have in mind as the env setup is different but 1) lower envs might not experience the load or edge cases as prod 2) lower envs are supposed to be as similar as possible to prod. Is it a good idea to test things with Python 3.11 and run it in prod using a different Python version? It might even force you to use different versions of a lib for each env which means no confidence for releases to prod based on lower env tests (one way would be to have two lower envs. One for next Python version and another for current one as in prod. But #1 is my main issue.)

thejosh 4y ago

Once everything gets wheels/bumped, it'll be a lot easier. The last few major versions have been fairly straight forward to upgrade once they're all in place, and the nice thing is this should hopefully fix any remaining packages that aren't built for the arm64 macs.

snvzz 4y ago

Once 3.12 is out, perhaps it'll be time to move to 3.11.x.

4m1rk 4y ago

> I usually wait until the 3rd patch myself, after many years of paying the price of greedy upgrades. We wouldn't get there if everyone does that though.

fluidcruft 4y ago
Why not? Production isn't where bugs should be found. Plenty of time to test things before production.
- bravetraveler 4y ago
  To be fair to who you're replying to, this did basically start with "new version -> production" Not much room left for integration/development and so on I pick these things up early in lower environments, as I suppose you do, so that the real production upgrade isn't scary... and we don't fall behind Waiting forever for the community to QA doesn't work, you probably aren't running exactly what they are
- 4m1rk 4y ago
  Maybe what I have in mind as the env setup is different but 1) lower envs might not experience the load or edge cases as prod 2) lower envs are supposed to be as similar as possible to prod. Is it a good idea to test things with Python 3.11 and run it in prod using a different Python version? It might even force you to use different versions of a lib for each env which means no confidence for releases to prod based on lower env tests (one way would be to have two lower envs. One for next Python version and another for current one as in prod. But #1 is my main issue.)