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Even though I do have WhatsApp I wouldn't have noticed without this HN headline. Everyone I message with is via iMessage or Signal nowadays and I only have Wha

Even though I do have WhatsApp I wouldn't have noticed without this HN headline. Everyone I message with is via iMessage or Signal nowadays and I only have WhatsApp because I am part of a few sports clubs which have a WhatsApp group but we don't chat enough for me to notice a downtime like today. Makes me happy to see how I've actually managed to rid myself of WhatsApp for the most part.

sgt 4y ago
Same, I use iMessage for anything critical as friends and family are mostly on iPhones, but for those that aren't I use WhatsApp and Telegram. In some countries WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I wonder how much all those free users cost Meta each year. Just as a side thought :)
- themoonisachees 4y ago
  these free users are probably generating revenue by sharing all their conversations to advertisers.
sneak 4y ago
WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and AFAIK now has encrypted backups. iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire.
- eye_street 4y ago
  Would you mind expanding on that last bit? It’s this related to iCloud backups, the ability to add an invisible user to a chat, or something else?
- capableweb 4y ago
  Both whatsapp and imessage are run by american companies, you can sure both of them are compromised and I wouldn't pass US state secrets via either of them. For the normal person this matters less of course, intelligence services are not interested in your nudes.
  - cyphar 4y ago
    Signal is also run by an American entity. > intelligence services are not interested in your nudes There is actually plenty of evidence they are[1]. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2014/7/17/5912287/edward-snowden-says-he-can-live-with-being-sent-to-guantanamo https://www.theverge.com/2014/7/17/5912287/edward-snowden-sa...
  - ycombinete 4y ago
    > intelligence services are not interested in your nudes If I recall correctly Snowden said the opposite. The guys he was around regularly shared nudes etc of people they were spying ins
- jonnybgood 4y ago
  > iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire. Would be great if you provide a source for that.
  - sneak 4y ago
    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
  - plibither8 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Might not be the best "source", but there's clear evidence of it being done in the past.
    - sneak 4y ago
      iMessages are encrypted via TLS in transit. Room 641A-style cable taps do not allow them to be read. The backdoor in their end to end encryption preserved intentionally by Apple to enable surveillance is what allows them to be read - by Apple.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  Maybe not an explicit backdoor but iCloud backups being enabled by default (and those are not end-to-end encrypted) effectively serves as one.

sgt 4y ago

Same, I use iMessage for anything critical as friends and family are mostly on iPhones, but for those that aren't I use WhatsApp and Telegram. In some countries WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I wonder how much all those free users cost Meta each year. Just as a side thought :)

themoonisachees 4y ago
these free users are probably generating revenue by sharing all their conversations to advertisers.

sneak 4y ago

WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and AFAIK now has encrypted backups. iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire.

eye_street 4y ago
Would you mind expanding on that last bit? It’s this related to iCloud backups, the ability to add an invisible user to a chat, or something else?
capableweb 4y ago
Both whatsapp and imessage are run by american companies, you can sure both of them are compromised and I wouldn't pass US state secrets via either of them. For the normal person this matters less of course, intelligence services are not interested in your nudes.
- cyphar 4y ago
  Signal is also run by an American entity. > intelligence services are not interested in your nudes There is actually plenty of evidence they are[1]. [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2014/7/17/5912287/edward-snowden-says-he-can-live-with-being-sent-to-guantanamo https://www.theverge.com/2014/7/17/5912287/edward-snowden-sa...
- ycombinete 4y ago
  > intelligence services are not interested in your nudes If I recall correctly Snowden said the opposite. The guys he was around regularly shared nudes etc of people they were spying ins
jonnybgood 4y ago
> iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire. Would be great if you provide a source for that.
- sneak 4y ago
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive/exclusive-apple-dropped-plan-for-encrypting-backups-after-fbi-complained-sources-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
- plibither8 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A Might not be the best "source", but there's clear evidence of it being done in the past.
  - sneak 4y ago
    iMessages are encrypted via TLS in transit. Room 641A-style cable taps do not allow them to be read. The backdoor in their end to end encryption preserved intentionally by Apple to enable surveillance is what allows them to be read - by Apple.
Nextgrid 4y ago
Maybe not an explicit backdoor but iCloud backups being enabled by default (and those are not end-to-end encrypted) effectively serves as one.