6 ms·

I hate to say that, but Microsoft turned out to be the adult in the room. I can still run most software from 20 years ago without any changes and, when needed,

I hate to say that, but Microsoft turned out to be the adult in the room. I can still run most software from 20 years ago without any changes and, when needed, unofficial patches are far more feasible than say running 32 bit software on Monterey. On top of that, new comparability is being added, not removed - I can now also run Linux and Android apps out of the box. While new functionality meaningfully improves user experience, especially when it comes to gaming. Also openness to simultaneously support different CPUs/GPUs/peripherals and technologies like touch screens rather than forcing a single selection on the user. Not everything is hunky dory of course, I hate forced updates and constant nags for OneDrive/Edge and so on. But overall Windows 11 feels like Snow Leopard and Ventura feels like Windows 8.

nathias 4y ago
> While new functionality meaningfully improves user experience, especially when it comes to gaming. What do you mean? The most changes I see in Windows is just more spyware/adds added to basic features.
- amatecha 4y ago
  Yeah, what? I would happily argue the optimal UX ever present in Windows was either Windows 7 or Windows XP.
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> I can still run most software from 20 years ago without any changes Well I can't. There are old games in my Steam library right now that will not even launch on the latest Windows. Hunting for old DirectX redistributables didn't seem to help and I gave up. I wouldn't be surprised if they worked fine on Linux. Wouldn't that be ironic?
- ColonelPhantom 4y ago
  For games, the PC Gaming Wiki is a treasure trove of "how do I get game X running on modern machines". Usually the culprit is either an ancient version of DirectX for 1990s titles, or DRM for the 2000s. And usually there's a crack/patch for the DRM, and for DirectX you can use tools like dgVoodoo.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    If I'm going to have to tinker with stuff in order to get things to work, I'm just gonna use Linux. The whole point of Windows is it runs people's software with minimum fuss, if things have degenerated to the point it can't even do that anymore then there is no point in ever using this thing.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  I have software I wrote in an old zip file from ~2003. It runs fine on my computer nearly 20 years later. Games are very complex with optimizations specific from their time so they ran well. I wouldn’t expect old games to run, but often you can still get them to run if you’re determined enough to find the old dlls.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > I wouldn’t expect old games to run I would and I do. The whole point of Windows is to run this stuff. If it can't do that, there is no reason to put up with it.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      Well, I should clarify a bit. I wouldn’t expect games newer than 2009ish to to run past a certain point. From that point publishers got weird.
- Scharkenberg 4y ago
  > There are old games in my Steam library right now that will not even launch on the latest Windows. It's still Windows, with a massive user base, even more so among gamers. If an older game doesn't run out-of-the-box, someone on the Internet has probably already figured out a fix for it and published it on a blog or database.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    Looking up and following random instructions from the internet until things work. Sounds like the old school Linux experience to me before the dawn of the Arch Wiki. Might as well use Linux at this point.
    - Scharkenberg 4y ago
      It rarely happens compared to the list of imperfections on ProtonDB, but whatever floats one's boat.
- cat_plus_plus 4y ago
  Then they will probably work fine on WSL2. Nothing is 100% but the point is that modern tech like VR and RTX is well supported, lots of old stuff just works or can be made to work with some patience and Microsoft is going out of the way to help you run even more stuff with WSL2 or Android app store or built in virtual machines. Apple would have to still ship with PowerPC emulation to be on that level.
kmac_ 4y ago
Oh man, I totally get it. I worked with all mayor systems and desktop environments and the current state is really wierd. Mac has so many quirks that day to day users learned to live with. Windows is like a mashup of UIs since Windows 3 so isn't much better. I use Ubuntu with Gnome as a daily driver at work and I barely tolerate it, for example the build in file browser, Nautilus, has less features than Windows 95 file explorer, which was developed nearly 3 decades ago. I won't mention Snap wierdnes. KDE is stable like an egg standing on its end, but has the most appealing interface. Overall, I came to the conclusion that Windows is the one actually designed for work, it's stable, has build in Linux and simply don't get in the way.
- sbuk 4y ago
  > "Mac has so many quirks that day to day users learned to live with." Depends on where you started. I've been a Mac user for over 30 years; Windows to me is a frustrating, unintuitive mess. That doesn't mean that it actually is a frustrating, unintuitive mess. I'm just not used to using it. Please, you all call yourselves "engineers". Well, engineers deal in facts, can you all stop posing opinions as facts. I agree with everything you said about Linux distros.
matsemann 4y ago
I downgraded from Win11 to Win10 for one reason alone: Win11 doesn't allow me to ungroup items on the start menu. I feel like half the designers on Microsoft must be using MacOS as their daily driver, constantly messing with things that work, just to make it more Apple-y.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  > I feel like half the designers on Microsoft must be using MacOS as their daily driver I've seen comments online from people who claim to work at Microsoft that have said as much is true
- hu3 4y ago
  This open-source project fixes Windows 11 back to sane Windows 10 functionalites: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/releases https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/releases
stodor89 4y ago
Recently needed to install Visual Studio 6 and get a 20-year-old game to build and run. Debugging DX8 on Windows 11 is apparently a no-go, but apart from that everything worked flawlessly.

nathias 4y ago

> While new functionality meaningfully improves user experience, especially when it comes to gaming. What do you mean? The most changes I see in Windows is just more spyware/adds added to basic features.

amatecha 4y ago
Yeah, what? I would happily argue the optimal UX ever present in Windows was either Windows 7 or Windows XP.

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> I can still run most software from 20 years ago without any changes Well I can't. There are old games in my Steam library right now that will not even launch on the latest Windows. Hunting for old DirectX redistributables didn't seem to help and I gave up. I wouldn't be surprised if they worked fine on Linux. Wouldn't that be ironic?

ColonelPhantom 4y ago
For games, the PC Gaming Wiki is a treasure trove of "how do I get game X running on modern machines". Usually the culprit is either an ancient version of DirectX for 1990s titles, or DRM for the 2000s. And usually there's a crack/patch for the DRM, and for DirectX you can use tools like dgVoodoo.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  If I'm going to have to tinker with stuff in order to get things to work, I'm just gonna use Linux. The whole point of Windows is it runs people's software with minimum fuss, if things have degenerated to the point it can't even do that anymore then there is no point in ever using this thing.
withinboredom 4y ago
I have software I wrote in an old zip file from ~2003. It runs fine on my computer nearly 20 years later. Games are very complex with optimizations specific from their time so they ran well. I wouldn’t expect old games to run, but often you can still get them to run if you’re determined enough to find the old dlls.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > I wouldn’t expect old games to run I would and I do. The whole point of Windows is to run this stuff. If it can't do that, there is no reason to put up with it.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Well, I should clarify a bit. I wouldn’t expect games newer than 2009ish to to run past a certain point. From that point publishers got weird.
Scharkenberg 4y ago
> There are old games in my Steam library right now that will not even launch on the latest Windows. It's still Windows, with a massive user base, even more so among gamers. If an older game doesn't run out-of-the-box, someone on the Internet has probably already figured out a fix for it and published it on a blog or database.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  Looking up and following random instructions from the internet until things work. Sounds like the old school Linux experience to me before the dawn of the Arch Wiki. Might as well use Linux at this point.
  - Scharkenberg 4y ago
    It rarely happens compared to the list of imperfections on ProtonDB, but whatever floats one's boat.
cat_plus_plus 4y ago
Then they will probably work fine on WSL2. Nothing is 100% but the point is that modern tech like VR and RTX is well supported, lots of old stuff just works or can be made to work with some patience and Microsoft is going out of the way to help you run even more stuff with WSL2 or Android app store or built in virtual machines. Apple would have to still ship with PowerPC emulation to be on that level.

kmac_ 4y ago

Oh man, I totally get it. I worked with all mayor systems and desktop environments and the current state is really wierd. Mac has so many quirks that day to day users learned to live with. Windows is like a mashup of UIs since Windows 3 so isn't much better. I use Ubuntu with Gnome as a daily driver at work and I barely tolerate it, for example the build in file browser, Nautilus, has less features than Windows 95 file explorer, which was developed nearly 3 decades ago. I won't mention Snap wierdnes. KDE is stable like an egg standing on its end, but has the most appealing interface. Overall, I came to the conclusion that Windows is the one actually designed for work, it's stable, has build in Linux and simply don't get in the way.

sbuk 4y ago
> "Mac has so many quirks that day to day users learned to live with." Depends on where you started. I've been a Mac user for over 30 years; Windows to me is a frustrating, unintuitive mess. That doesn't mean that it actually is a frustrating, unintuitive mess. I'm just not used to using it. Please, you all call yourselves "engineers". Well, engineers deal in facts, can you all stop posing opinions as facts. I agree with everything you said about Linux distros.

matsemann 4y ago

I downgraded from Win11 to Win10 for one reason alone: Win11 doesn't allow me to ungroup items on the start menu. I feel like half the designers on Microsoft must be using MacOS as their daily driver, constantly messing with things that work, just to make it more Apple-y.

kalleboo 4y ago
> I feel like half the designers on Microsoft must be using MacOS as their daily driver I've seen comments online from people who claim to work at Microsoft that have said as much is true
hu3 4y ago
This open-source project fixes Windows 11 back to sane Windows 10 functionalites: https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/releases https://github.com/valinet/ExplorerPatcher/releases

stodor89 4y ago

Recently needed to install Visual Studio 6 and get a 20-year-old game to build and run. Debugging DX8 on Windows 11 is apparently a no-go, but apart from that everything worked flawlessly.