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The only real influence is the concept of permadeath. People often claim that games like FTL are roguelikes, but other than permadeath, they have nothing in com

The only real influence is the concept of permadeath. People often claim that games like FTL are roguelikes, but other than permadeath, they have nothing in common with Rogue.

xnorswap 4y ago
That's unfair to FTL and the advancement of rogue-likes and perhaps more importantly, rogue-lites. It's not just "permadeath", there's also the seeding and randomness of each game . (No-one would argue that Super Mario is a rogue-like). Additionally, and while this is stretched to some degree in games like Hades, there's the discrete-time based nature of the games compared to a game like Isaac for instance. Then with rogue-lites there's also a layering of meta-progression on top of the game loop progression. Saying that roguelikes are "just" permadeath is misrepresenting the genre entirely. And the nature of words is that you might conclude that rogue isn't necessarily the quintessential rogue-like game, but that's okay.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  I'm not saying that roguelikes is "just" permadeath. I'm saying that this is the main game feature that is shared by roguelikes and FTL. And randomly generated game world is so common that it can't even be considered as some unique roguelike feature.
steeleduncan 4y ago
Other commonalities in the case of FTL: - Random generation - Resource management - Exploration - Single ruleset for players and enemies - Combat focused - Multiple viable strategies
- danielbarla 4y ago
  I'd also add: - Meta-progression where (most of) the unlocked ships are strictly worse than the starter ship To elaborate on this, most games tend to have unlocks or game modes that are overpowered, giving you a "victory lap" on subsequent playthroughs. Roguelikes tend to give you interesting unlocks that can still be powerful, but tend to be a lot harder to play than the original. (This is not a hard and fast rule, more of a rough idea.)
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    This is not exactly true for FTL. While the starting ship is good, the most OP ships in the game are Mantis and Crystal ships that have 4-person teleporters. Teleporting beats every other strategy. Especially teleporting with Mantis crew or Crystal crew, who can lockdown rooms.
    - danielbarla 4y ago
      Fair enough, but it's no Engi B :) That said, I think most players will find it interesting that the weapon they started out with is generally considered to be strongest in the game. One can argue details about Flak I or beams, but the humble Burst Laser II is right up there.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        FTL is quite an easy game once you figure the things out, and it's quite easy to adapt your play style to whatever gear the game is sending your way. Still, I consider teleporting-oriented ships to be the most powerful because you get significantly more scrap if you board enemy ships and not blow them up. Regarding Engi, they are not particularly difficult. For me, the most problematic were Rock ships which are based on using rockets, and, of course, stealth cruiser without shields.
- n4r9 4y ago
  Turn-based combat is a pretty big one, as far as I can tell.
thecrash 4y ago
The most important concepts which Rogue contributed to modern games are: - Abstract/symbolic representation over realistic/literal graphics - Systems (without documentation) as a primary aspect of play - Procedural content generation - Permadeath Permadeath is the least novel of the concepts, but it is key to the effectiveness of the others. Permadeath adds drama and stakes to the player's experiments with the game's systems, and adds importance to the results of the procedural content.

The only real influence is the concept of permadeath. People often claim that games like FTL are roguelikes, but other than permadeath, they have nothing in common with Rogue.

xnorswap 4y ago

That's unfair to FTL and the advancement of rogue-likes and perhaps more importantly, rogue-lites. It's not just "permadeath", there's also the seeding and randomness of each game . (No-one would argue that Super Mario is a rogue-like). Additionally, and while this is stretched to some degree in games like Hades, there's the discrete-time based nature of the games compared to a game like Isaac for instance. Then with rogue-lites there's also a layering of meta-progression on top of the game loop progression. Saying that roguelikes are "just" permadeath is misrepresenting the genre entirely. And the nature of words is that you might conclude that rogue isn't necessarily the quintessential rogue-like game, but that's okay.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
I'm not saying that roguelikes is "just" permadeath. I'm saying that this is the main game feature that is shared by roguelikes and FTL. And randomly generated game world is so common that it can't even be considered as some unique roguelike feature.

steeleduncan 4y ago

Other commonalities in the case of FTL: - Random generation - Resource management - Exploration - Single ruleset for players and enemies - Combat focused - Multiple viable strategies

danielbarla 4y ago
I'd also add: - Meta-progression where (most of) the unlocked ships are strictly worse than the starter ship To elaborate on this, most games tend to have unlocks or game modes that are overpowered, giving you a "victory lap" on subsequent playthroughs. Roguelikes tend to give you interesting unlocks that can still be powerful, but tend to be a lot harder to play than the original. (This is not a hard and fast rule, more of a rough idea.)
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  This is not exactly true for FTL. While the starting ship is good, the most OP ships in the game are Mantis and Crystal ships that have 4-person teleporters. Teleporting beats every other strategy. Especially teleporting with Mantis crew or Crystal crew, who can lockdown rooms.
  - danielbarla 4y ago
    Fair enough, but it's no Engi B :) That said, I think most players will find it interesting that the weapon they started out with is generally considered to be strongest in the game. One can argue details about Flak I or beams, but the humble Burst Laser II is right up there.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      FTL is quite an easy game once you figure the things out, and it's quite easy to adapt your play style to whatever gear the game is sending your way. Still, I consider teleporting-oriented ships to be the most powerful because you get significantly more scrap if you board enemy ships and not blow them up. Regarding Engi, they are not particularly difficult. For me, the most problematic were Rock ships which are based on using rockets, and, of course, stealth cruiser without shields.
n4r9 4y ago
Turn-based combat is a pretty big one, as far as I can tell.

thecrash 4y ago

The most important concepts which Rogue contributed to modern games are: - Abstract/symbolic representation over realistic/literal graphics - Systems (without documentation) as a primary aspect of play - Procedural content generation - Permadeath Permadeath is the least novel of the concepts, but it is key to the effectiveness of the others. Permadeath adds drama and stakes to the player's experiments with the game's systems, and adds importance to the results of the procedural content.