4 ms·

WSL not deeply integrated? When was the last time you used it? I can't imagine a use case where you need your core OS to be posix based, and WSL with whatever l

WSL not deeply integrated? When was the last time you used it? I can't imagine a use case where you need your core OS to be posix based, and WSL with whatever linux VM isn't good enough as a dev environment. VScode in windows with WSL is the perfect dev combo.

howinteresting 4y ago
I don't need to have my OS be posix-based, but I do need it to have a decent auto-tiling setup and a checksummed filesystem with fast snapshots and rollbacks.
- mmmpetrichor 4y ago
  by checksummed filesystem, do you mean a filesystem that maintains integrity? don't all modern file systems do that? I have little to no idea about how mac and windows compare with snapshots. I have never needed that in my OS. Do you use that for test environment replication or something?
  - howinteresting 4y ago
    I mean btrfs or zfs. Just like auto-tiling, once you have it you'll have no idea how you lived without it.
    - mmmpetrichor 4y ago
      suppose I recreated my desktop with zfs rather than ext4. What wonders could I expect? :)
      - howinteresting 4y ago
        The main ones I use are: * make automatic snapshots that you can recover data from as necessary, and have them be created every time the system updates (I've needed to use this once) * have those automatic snapshots be auto synced to my NAS, creating a backup (also used this once when my hardware failed)
  - abiloe 4y ago
    > don't all modern file systems do that? Define this. But the simple, practical answer is no.
    - mmmpetrichor 4y ago
      Practical answer? when was the last time you heard about someone having file corruption on their local OS due to using a bad filesystem technology? I've been an enterprise developer for storage companies for more than 15 years, I'm very familiar with different file systems, and I've never cared what filesystem was on my local PC because it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. I feel like I'm being trolled on technical points that have nothing to do with the topic I was trying to discuss. I guess I should have learned my lesson that even on HN, don't feed the trolls.
      - abiloe 4y ago
        > when was the last time you heard about someone having file corruption on their local OS due to using a bad filesystem technology? Quite frequently. It's not that uncommon at all. Bad disk cables, defective disks, etc it's not all that rare. The filesystem is in a place to either detect and/or correct these problems. Only some do. > I've never cared what filesystem was on my local PC because it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. I'm glad you've been lucky but silent file corruption is not an "irrelevant" problem as data densities increase. Filesystems with data checksums include btrfs, ZFS, ReFS, NILFS. But very commonly used filesystems, xfs, ext4, NTFS, APFS, exFAT do not have this feature (some of them do have metadata support). > it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. Unnecessary e-peening aside - Why do you think this is the case? What specifically about modern tech makes it irrelevant?
zimpenfish 4y ago
> WSL not deeply integrated? Been a few months since I last checked but there didn't seem to be a way to get to your WSL (VM? Instance?) from outside the windows environment (ie via ssh) without setting up a bunch of firewall rules using Powershell to query the IP and create the rules from there. (Except that doesn't always work correctly because PS seems to get a different IP because it's starting up a new WSL? I dunno, I gave up a while back.)
- chx 4y ago
  Fixed IP is a solved problem by now. See https://superuser.com/a/1715206/41259 https://superuser.com/a/1715206/41259
AshamedCaptain 4y ago
> I can't imagine a use case where you need your core OS to be posix based, and WSL with whatever linux VM isn't good enough as a dev environment Maybe as "web dev environment" it is enough, but this is the main reason why I absolutely detest these "cmdline/scripting only inside a sandboxed VM" approach that the major commercial platforms seem to be trying to sell us these days. It really is not enough for general purpose computing. I want true integration with the operating system, not sandboxed crap. I want to be able to do almost anything the host OS is capable of doing from my command line, including receiving and sending SMS, filtering incoming phone calls with a script, renaming files en-masse (from _other_ programs, not just files from inside the sandbox itself), recording and playing sounds, access hardware that I have plugged in like USB serial ports or whatever, access hardware that I have not plugged in like diagnosing bluetooth device pairing, be able to fully backup/restore the "host OS" to my medium of choice, partition and format external OR internal filesystems, etc. I want to do this stuff quite frequently and WSL is just NOT cut for that. The same applies to ChromeOS/Android sandboxed linux approaches. They are a joke designed for the user who is mostly going to simply run ssh into a real machine from within such a sandbox or perhaps run some programs that were so portable they already had win32 versions to begin with. This was not the case for macOS which until very recently was still a very command line centric OS.

howinteresting 4y ago

I don't need to have my OS be posix-based, but I do need it to have a decent auto-tiling setup and a checksummed filesystem with fast snapshots and rollbacks.

mmmpetrichor 4y ago
by checksummed filesystem, do you mean a filesystem that maintains integrity? don't all modern file systems do that? I have little to no idea about how mac and windows compare with snapshots. I have never needed that in my OS. Do you use that for test environment replication or something?
- howinteresting 4y ago
  I mean btrfs or zfs. Just like auto-tiling, once you have it you'll have no idea how you lived without it.
  - mmmpetrichor 4y ago
    suppose I recreated my desktop with zfs rather than ext4. What wonders could I expect? :)
    - howinteresting 4y ago
      The main ones I use are: * make automatic snapshots that you can recover data from as necessary, and have them be created every time the system updates (I've needed to use this once) * have those automatic snapshots be auto synced to my NAS, creating a backup (also used this once when my hardware failed)
- abiloe 4y ago
  > don't all modern file systems do that? Define this. But the simple, practical answer is no.
  - mmmpetrichor 4y ago
    Practical answer? when was the last time you heard about someone having file corruption on their local OS due to using a bad filesystem technology? I've been an enterprise developer for storage companies for more than 15 years, I'm very familiar with different file systems, and I've never cared what filesystem was on my local PC because it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. I feel like I'm being trolled on technical points that have nothing to do with the topic I was trying to discuss. I guess I should have learned my lesson that even on HN, don't feed the trolls.
    - abiloe 4y ago
      > when was the last time you heard about someone having file corruption on their local OS due to using a bad filesystem technology? Quite frequently. It's not that uncommon at all. Bad disk cables, defective disks, etc it's not all that rare. The filesystem is in a place to either detect and/or correct these problems. Only some do. > I've never cared what filesystem was on my local PC because it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. I'm glad you've been lucky but silent file corruption is not an "irrelevant" problem as data densities increase. Filesystems with data checksums include btrfs, ZFS, ReFS, NILFS. But very commonly used filesystems, xfs, ext4, NTFS, APFS, exFAT do not have this feature (some of them do have metadata support). > it's basically irrelevant with modern tech. Unnecessary e-peening aside - Why do you think this is the case? What specifically about modern tech makes it irrelevant?

zimpenfish 4y ago

> WSL not deeply integrated? Been a few months since I last checked but there didn't seem to be a way to get to your WSL (VM? Instance?) from outside the windows environment (ie via ssh) without setting up a bunch of firewall rules using Powershell to query the IP and create the rules from there. (Except that doesn't always work correctly because PS seems to get a different IP because it's starting up a new WSL? I dunno, I gave up a while back.)

chx 4y ago
Fixed IP is a solved problem by now. See https://superuser.com/a/1715206/41259 https://superuser.com/a/1715206/41259

AshamedCaptain 4y ago

> I can't imagine a use case where you need your core OS to be posix based, and WSL with whatever linux VM isn't good enough as a dev environment Maybe as "web dev environment" it is enough, but this is the main reason why I absolutely detest these "cmdline/scripting only inside a sandboxed VM" approach that the major commercial platforms seem to be trying to sell us these days. It really is not enough for general purpose computing. I want true integration with the operating system, not sandboxed crap. I want to be able to do almost anything the host OS is capable of doing from my command line, including receiving and sending SMS, filtering incoming phone calls with a script, renaming files en-masse (from _other_ programs, not just files from inside the sandbox itself), recording and playing sounds, access hardware that I have plugged in like USB serial ports or whatever, access hardware that I have not plugged in like diagnosing bluetooth device pairing, be able to fully backup/restore the "host OS" to my medium of choice, partition and format external OR internal filesystems, etc. I want to do this stuff quite frequently and WSL is just NOT cut for that. The same applies to ChromeOS/Android sandboxed linux approaches. They are a joke designed for the user who is mostly going to simply run ssh into a real machine from within such a sandbox or perhaps run some programs that were so portable they already had win32 versions to begin with. This was not the case for macOS which until very recently was still a very command line centric OS.