3 ms·

Done 5-apb - ask me anything. It was fun. Probably neurotoxic. Can't say I recommend doing random ass Chinese chemicals with little history of human consumptio

Done 5-apb - ask me anything. It was fun. Probably neurotoxic. Can't say I recommend doing random ass Chinese chemicals with little history of human consumption.

pcthrowaway 4y ago
Why do you say "probably neurotoxic"? Do you mean moreso than MDMA? If so, do you suspect it's only being studied for its therapeutic use because it's currently not criminalized?
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  MDMA is not known to be neurotoxic. The study that showed that accidentally used methamphetamine, which is definitely neurotoxic. https://www.nature.com/articles/425109a https://www.nature.com/articles/425109a If you prefer to hear it straight from a Stanford professor's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QE6t-MkYE&t=5052s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QE6t-MkYE&t=5052s
  - pcthrowaway 4y ago
    I'm aware that MDMA is not neurotoxic, I was wondering why the person I responded to called the research chem they took "probably neurotoxic"... but perhaps they were under the impression that MDMA is neurotoxic, and therefore considering this research chemical "guilty by association" or something
    - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
      So firstly I did and do think mdma is neurotoxic. I was under the impression that the literature was pretty settled on it being neurotoxic but sounds like I might be wrong about that. I said 5-apb is probably nuerotoxic because it's serotonin effects felt very similar to mama, and that feeling has always felt to me like I was doing low grade brain damage or at the very least heavily downregulating my serotonin receptor system.
  - gqz 4y ago
    I think the state of the literature is a little more complicated than you surmise from Huberman's podcast. For example, note especially their careful wording around its neurotoxicity, as well as the clinical dosing assumptions they make their claims within, which likely differ from those of casual users. As a cautionary example, you should look into alpha-Methyldopamine. Last I checked (which was, admittedly, several years ago), there was not a good rebuttal to its neurotoxic potential. Though this potential is less serious than the neurotoxicity demonstrated by the botched study which injected methamphetamine and said it was MDMA (and was later corrected, but the damage to MDMA's reputation had already been done), I still think it demonstrates that the case of MDMA's neurotoxicity, at least in the way that a casual user might consume it--even sparingly--is not an open and shut case. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong, since MDMA is great stuff. I hope someone can check the most recent literature on this topic and tell me otherwise.

Done 5-apb - ask me anything. It was fun. Probably neurotoxic. Can't say I recommend doing random ass Chinese chemicals with little history of human consumption.

pcthrowaway 4y ago

Why do you say "probably neurotoxic"? Do you mean moreso than MDMA? If so, do you suspect it's only being studied for its therapeutic use because it's currently not criminalized?

hayst4ck 4y ago
MDMA is not known to be neurotoxic. The study that showed that accidentally used methamphetamine, which is definitely neurotoxic. https://www.nature.com/articles/425109a https://www.nature.com/articles/425109a If you prefer to hear it straight from a Stanford professor's mouth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QE6t-MkYE&t=5052s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4QE6t-MkYE&t=5052s
- pcthrowaway 4y ago
  I'm aware that MDMA is not neurotoxic, I was wondering why the person I responded to called the research chem they took "probably neurotoxic"... but perhaps they were under the impression that MDMA is neurotoxic, and therefore considering this research chemical "guilty by association" or something
  - DontchaKnowit 4y ago
    So firstly I did and do think mdma is neurotoxic. I was under the impression that the literature was pretty settled on it being neurotoxic but sounds like I might be wrong about that. I said 5-apb is probably nuerotoxic because it's serotonin effects felt very similar to mama, and that feeling has always felt to me like I was doing low grade brain damage or at the very least heavily downregulating my serotonin receptor system.
- gqz 4y ago
  I think the state of the literature is a little more complicated than you surmise from Huberman's podcast. For example, note especially their careful wording around its neurotoxicity, as well as the clinical dosing assumptions they make their claims within, which likely differ from those of casual users. As a cautionary example, you should look into alpha-Methyldopamine. Last I checked (which was, admittedly, several years ago), there was not a good rebuttal to its neurotoxic potential. Though this potential is less serious than the neurotoxicity demonstrated by the botched study which injected methamphetamine and said it was MDMA (and was later corrected, but the damage to MDMA's reputation had already been done), I still think it demonstrates that the case of MDMA's neurotoxicity, at least in the way that a casual user might consume it--even sparingly--is not an open and shut case. That said, I'd love to be proven wrong, since MDMA is great stuff. I hope someone can check the most recent literature on this topic and tell me otherwise.