5 ms·

Unfortunately the 2021 numbers were really juiced because of stock performance. It looks like OP took a different job, but if he didn't, he should expect his co

Unfortunately the 2021 numbers were really juiced because of stock performance. It looks like OP took a different job, but if he didn't, he should expect his comp to drop to a measly 400k or so in 2022

jefftk 4y ago
That's about right: three things would have combined to decrease my 2022 comp: * When I came back to Google my stock grant vested evenly over four years, creating a 'cliff' in year five. They don't do this anymore, I think because people tend to leave. * My 2021 comp included several past years of stock grants, and the company's stock had been growing much faster than the market. * The market overall is down since 2021. I think I would have made about $470k in 2022 if I'd stayed the whole year. 2023 would have been higher, because it would have been my first year getting the full L6 comp. (And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I definitely wouldn't consider $400k "measly" -- even after donating 50% I had much more to live on than most Americans, let alone most people globally)
- spacemadness 4y ago
  They’re absolutely being sarcastic.
xupybd 4y ago
> measly 400k Here in NZ $140,000NZD would be a good wage for a software developer. That is about $80,000USD. $400k US is about $700,600NZD. That is a massive amount of money for one years work. Edit: My sarcasm meter is broken. In reading other comments I seem to have missed the joke. Sorry.
- slyall 4y ago
  As a NZ person in tech I'd be embarrassed to post my salary history here. Been doing it for years and still paid under $US100k.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    Keep in mind Google is a massive outlier inside massively successful startups which are outliers inside SV which is an outlier inside... Lots of places in the US are as far from those numbers as NZ. Google numbers should not be an reference point to almost anyone, anywhere or they're likely to be disappointed.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - pc86 4y ago
    Serious question, how many years? I ask because 1) I make really good money now, especially if you ignore the SV/FAANG outliers that everyone here pretends are the norm, but it still took me 7-8 years to break 100k USD, in the US. 2) Maybe because there are so many new devs now but I hear people say a lot "I've been doing this for years!" then when you dig into it "years" means 2 or 3. These are also the same people who don't consider themselves junior 6 months into their first job, or consider themselves senior after 3 years. A career is 30-40 years long. The median income for a dev in the US is 100k. That's going to skew down due to lots of juniors but it also includes everyone making several hundred thousand dollars a year. I am taking a pay cut down to 160 for better WLB on a product I have used for years as a customer and really care about, and I think if you ignore the outliers I am very well compensated at 12 YOE and existing domain knowledge.
    - xupybd 4y ago
      I'm mid way through my second decade of professional programming. I'm still well below $100k USD. But I earn way above average for NZ.
- solraph 4y ago
  Come to Australia, AUD$150k is fairly normal for a (actual) senior developer now. Note: This is a very recent thing since the start of 2022. Salary guides from even 2020 probably show $30k-$50k less.
  - gregoryl 4y ago
    I'm seeing sub-standard senior candidates asking for 160k (and more) in Melbourne. Fully remote etc.
    - phist_mcgee 4y ago
      There really aren't a lot of great candidates out there. The last hiring round I ran turned up a lot of candidates asking for 170k, but who couldn't even do elementary software engineering best practices. Not algorithms, but things like - reading code, writing comments, formatting their files. Pretty incredible to see how tight the market is right now.
      - Panzer04 4y ago
        Really? Do they at least have some kind of redeeming character? Or is it literally at the point where being able to write some kind of code is sufficient? (Am 1yr junior in Melbourne that should probably be looking around, it sounds like..)
        phist_mcgee 4y ago
        In essence two things: 1. We have to use recruiters to find candidates, we barely get any hits on our job ad, even though we are a pretty innovative company with a modern tech stack and pay quite well. The recruiters field us the most woeful candidates, but at least it's someone rather than no one. The pool for qualified senior engineers is low, so we're all competing for a shrinking pool of candidates relative to the jobs on offer. 2. Hiring for fit is important to me, so it's not so much that they aren't stellar in their interview technically, but the fact that people don't realistically state what their strengths and weaknesses are, and sometimes outright lie to you, means that I don't want to work with them. Humility is the bedrock of real growth, how can you really grow if you're lying to people around you about how competent you are? I've hired weaker candidates technically purely because they had an on honest approach to their abilities, and demonstrated a keeness for learning. If you're at the junior level, my advice is to job hop as mad as possible until you have a few years/companies under your belt. Get a breadth of experiences at a few different places, it will help you contextualise everything you learn/don't know Once you hit 5-10 years experience, that's the time to start slowing down and really honing in on your experience and stay at places for longer. Completing projects end to end, and crucially, learning how to plan, estimate and deal with change over time.
- gregoryl 4y ago
  I'm hiring, in Melbourne. Some basic details in the profile. Already claimed one senior from Auckland, suspect they doubled salary by moving.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    Do you hire from NZ or is relocation required? I'm not looking but interested in how the world works in the days of remote work.
    - gregoryl 4y ago
      We can't (currently? yet?) hire people who are not working from Australia, for legal reasons. I'd love to change that, finding great people even across the whole of AU is extremely difficult.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
zaarn 4y ago
OP has a page for the proper pronouns to use in this situation, in case you didn't notice it.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Are you sure you're talking about the right op? This is in response to the ex Google employee not the author of the article.
- phist_mcgee 4y ago
  You would forgive someone for not checking a website to find their personal pronouns page surely?
  - zaarn 4y ago
    Well, it would be atleast polite to use gender neutral pronouns.
- jefftk 4y ago
  If you're talking about me I'm fine with he/him. (Also fine with they/them FWIW: https://www.jefftk.com/p/they-is-ok-by-me https://www.jefftk.com/p/they-is-ok-by-me)
  - zaarn 4y ago
    Was talking about Top OP.

jefftk 4y ago

That's about right: three things would have combined to decrease my 2022 comp: * When I came back to Google my stock grant vested evenly over four years, creating a 'cliff' in year five. They don't do this anymore, I think because people tend to leave. * My 2021 comp included several past years of stock grants, and the company's stock had been growing much faster than the market. * The market overall is down since 2021. I think I would have made about $470k in 2022 if I'd stayed the whole year. 2023 would have been higher, because it would have been my first year getting the full L6 comp. (And I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but I definitely wouldn't consider $400k "measly" -- even after donating 50% I had much more to live on than most Americans, let alone most people globally)

spacemadness 4y ago
They’re absolutely being sarcastic.

xupybd 4y ago

> measly 400k Here in NZ $140,000NZD would be a good wage for a software developer. That is about $80,000USD. $400k US is about $700,600NZD. That is a massive amount of money for one years work. Edit: My sarcasm meter is broken. In reading other comments I seem to have missed the joke. Sorry.

slyall 4y ago
As a NZ person in tech I'd be embarrassed to post my salary history here. Been doing it for years and still paid under $US100k.
- viraptor 4y ago
  Keep in mind Google is a massive outlier inside massively successful startups which are outliers inside SV which is an outlier inside... Lots of places in the US are as far from those numbers as NZ. Google numbers should not be an reference point to almost anyone, anywhere or they're likely to be disappointed.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- pc86 4y ago
  Serious question, how many years? I ask because 1) I make really good money now, especially if you ignore the SV/FAANG outliers that everyone here pretends are the norm, but it still took me 7-8 years to break 100k USD, in the US. 2) Maybe because there are so many new devs now but I hear people say a lot "I've been doing this for years!" then when you dig into it "years" means 2 or 3. These are also the same people who don't consider themselves junior 6 months into their first job, or consider themselves senior after 3 years. A career is 30-40 years long. The median income for a dev in the US is 100k. That's going to skew down due to lots of juniors but it also includes everyone making several hundred thousand dollars a year. I am taking a pay cut down to 160 for better WLB on a product I have used for years as a customer and really care about, and I think if you ignore the outliers I am very well compensated at 12 YOE and existing domain knowledge.
  - xupybd 4y ago
    I'm mid way through my second decade of professional programming. I'm still well below $100k USD. But I earn way above average for NZ.
solraph 4y ago
Come to Australia, AUD$150k is fairly normal for a (actual) senior developer now. Note: This is a very recent thing since the start of 2022. Salary guides from even 2020 probably show $30k-$50k less.
- gregoryl 4y ago
  I'm seeing sub-standard senior candidates asking for 160k (and more) in Melbourne. Fully remote etc.
  - phist_mcgee 4y ago
    There really aren't a lot of great candidates out there. The last hiring round I ran turned up a lot of candidates asking for 170k, but who couldn't even do elementary software engineering best practices. Not algorithms, but things like - reading code, writing comments, formatting their files. Pretty incredible to see how tight the market is right now.
    - Panzer04 4y ago
      Really? Do they at least have some kind of redeeming character? Or is it literally at the point where being able to write some kind of code is sufficient? (Am 1yr junior in Melbourne that should probably be looking around, it sounds like..)
      - phist_mcgee 4y ago
        In essence two things: 1. We have to use recruiters to find candidates, we barely get any hits on our job ad, even though we are a pretty innovative company with a modern tech stack and pay quite well. The recruiters field us the most woeful candidates, but at least it's someone rather than no one. The pool for qualified senior engineers is low, so we're all competing for a shrinking pool of candidates relative to the jobs on offer. 2. Hiring for fit is important to me, so it's not so much that they aren't stellar in their interview technically, but the fact that people don't realistically state what their strengths and weaknesses are, and sometimes outright lie to you, means that I don't want to work with them. Humility is the bedrock of real growth, how can you really grow if you're lying to people around you about how competent you are? I've hired weaker candidates technically purely because they had an on honest approach to their abilities, and demonstrated a keeness for learning. If you're at the junior level, my advice is to job hop as mad as possible until you have a few years/companies under your belt. Get a breadth of experiences at a few different places, it will help you contextualise everything you learn/don't know Once you hit 5-10 years experience, that's the time to start slowing down and really honing in on your experience and stay at places for longer. Completing projects end to end, and crucially, learning how to plan, estimate and deal with change over time.
gregoryl 4y ago
I'm hiring, in Melbourne. Some basic details in the profile. Already claimed one senior from Auckland, suspect they doubled salary by moving.
- xupybd 4y ago
  Do you hire from NZ or is relocation required? I'm not looking but interested in how the world works in the days of remote work.
  - gregoryl 4y ago
    We can't (currently? yet?) hire people who are not working from Australia, for legal reasons. I'd love to change that, finding great people even across the whole of AU is extremely difficult.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

zaarn 4y ago

OP has a page for the proper pronouns to use in this situation, in case you didn't notice it.

xupybd 4y ago
Are you sure you're talking about the right op? This is in response to the ex Google employee not the author of the article.
phist_mcgee 4y ago
You would forgive someone for not checking a website to find their personal pronouns page surely?
- zaarn 4y ago
  Well, it would be atleast polite to use gender neutral pronouns.
jefftk 4y ago
If you're talking about me I'm fine with he/him. (Also fine with they/them FWIW: https://www.jefftk.com/p/they-is-ok-by-me https://www.jefftk.com/p/they-is-ok-by-me)
- zaarn 4y ago
  Was talking about Top OP.