4 ms·

Snapdragon Developer Kit was built with a "cost above all" mandate, $219 target pricing but it just wasn't powerful enough. > There is no other supported deskt

by my123 4y ago

Snapdragon Developer Kit was built with a "cost above all" mandate, $219 target pricing but it just wasn't powerful enough. > There is no other supported desktop/CI/etc. solution for Windows on ARM. (Mac mini with Parallels/VMware is a popular unsupported alternative. It may still be your fastest.) Azure cloud instances are also an option. > but I'm not sure if there's remaining appetite for Windows target-specific development I think that there is. If there isn't, Windows has bigger problems...

DenisM 4y ago
> Azure cloud instances are also an option. I couldn’t find ARM with windows, can you help?
- jhickok 4y ago
  It's in Public Preview, I believe. I was able to create one relatively easily. https://imgur.com/a/bHXcNTz https://imgur.com/a/bHXcNTz
  - wmf 4y ago
    That doesn't show desktop Windows on an ARM VM.
    - my123 4y ago
      It is desktop Windows afaik. Server Windows is not quite publicly available yet (on arm64).
lodonnell9213 4y ago
I feel Microsoft is in a similar position to it’s windows phones in regards to ARM. Additionally they don’t have a system like Rosetta 2 to help with translation, a LOT of windows apps are x32/64 based, and there has to be an incentive for devs to make the switch, Apple faced this issue when moving from PPC, they used I believe Carbon to help, and over time took carbon off and forced devs to update to apples current architecture at the time. Electron unfortunately does seem like the potential way forward for apps, not just because of Windows and their handling of ARM, but it’s also potentially cheaper to develop against as its multi platform, 1Password is a prime example of this, and outside of the hardcore audience like us, they won’t notice the increased resource use of electron. Microsoft has proven however electron can be good, see Visual Studio Code, plus with the advent of chrome os gaining traction, it’s likely we may head into a web first world, outside a niche subset of users.
- pjmlp 4y ago
  Yes they have it indeed, Arm64EC. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/arm64ec https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/arm64ec
- q-big 4y ago
  > and there has to be an incentive for devs to make the switch Why make the devs switch? It would be much more in the spirit of Microsoft (opposed to the common spirit of Apple and GNU/Linux) to encourage to develop parallelly for ARM, too. The switch from 16 to 32 bit Windows was "support running 16 bit applications still for a long time". Similarly for 32 to 64 bit Windows (32 bit applications are still perfectly supported). This is in contrast to how how it is typically done on GNU/Linux (distributions typically make it hard to support 32 and 64 bit at the same time) or what Apple typically does (only support the old architecture only for a short time and nudge developers heavily to do the switch).
- glandium 4y ago
  > Additionally they don’t have a system like Rosetta 2 to help with translation They do. I'm not sure it covers x86-64 yet, but it does x86.
  - my123 4y ago
    x86_64 is covered since Windows 11
- FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
  Electron is on the way out on Windows as they move to WebView2. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview...
  - stkdump 4y ago
    I like the idea of WebView2, but it seems to be abandonware. They don't fix the most obvious bugs you run into immediately when trying it out. https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebView2Feedback/issues/2290 https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebView2Feedback/issues/229...
rbanffy 4y ago
> but it just wasn't powerful enough. 4 GB of RAM and eMMC would never be comfortable for Windows development. I have a very small laptop like that and I'd never think of using it to do .NET development on it. OTOH, for Python-backed web apps and API-based services, it's quite sufficient.
- my123 4y ago
  That devkit wasn't intended to be a development but a testing device. But then they made a big mistake: putting Windows Home on it instead of Pro... so that it didn't have RDP...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

by my123 4y ago

DenisM 4y ago

> Azure cloud instances are also an option. I couldn’t find ARM with windows, can you help?

jhickok 4y ago
It's in Public Preview, I believe. I was able to create one relatively easily. https://imgur.com/a/bHXcNTz https://imgur.com/a/bHXcNTz
- wmf 4y ago
  That doesn't show desktop Windows on an ARM VM.
  - my123 4y ago
    It is desktop Windows afaik. Server Windows is not quite publicly available yet (on arm64).

lodonnell9213 4y ago

I feel Microsoft is in a similar position to it’s windows phones in regards to ARM. Additionally they don’t have a system like Rosetta 2 to help with translation, a LOT of windows apps are x32/64 based, and there has to be an incentive for devs to make the switch, Apple faced this issue when moving from PPC, they used I believe Carbon to help, and over time took carbon off and forced devs to update to apples current architecture at the time. Electron unfortunately does seem like the potential way forward for apps, not just because of Windows and their handling of ARM, but it’s also potentially cheaper to develop against as its multi platform, 1Password is a prime example of this, and outside of the hardcore audience like us, they won’t notice the increased resource use of electron. Microsoft has proven however electron can be good, see Visual Studio Code, plus with the advent of chrome os gaining traction, it’s likely we may head into a web first world, outside a niche subset of users.

pjmlp 4y ago
Yes they have it indeed, Arm64EC. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/arm64ec https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/arm64ec
q-big 4y ago
> and there has to be an incentive for devs to make the switch Why make the devs switch? It would be much more in the spirit of Microsoft (opposed to the common spirit of Apple and GNU/Linux) to encourage to develop parallelly for ARM, too. The switch from 16 to 32 bit Windows was "support running 16 bit applications still for a long time". Similarly for 32 to 64 bit Windows (32 bit applications are still perfectly supported). This is in contrast to how how it is typically done on GNU/Linux (distributions typically make it hard to support 32 and 64 bit at the same time) or what Apple typically does (only support the old architecture only for a short time and nudge developers heavily to do the switch).
glandium 4y ago
> Additionally they don’t have a system like Rosetta 2 to help with translation They do. I'm not sure it covers x86-64 yet, but it does x86.
- my123 4y ago
  x86_64 is covered since Windows 11
FuriouslyAdrift 4y ago
Electron is on the way out on Windows as they move to WebView2. https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview2/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/webview...
- stkdump 4y ago
  I like the idea of WebView2, but it seems to be abandonware. They don't fix the most obvious bugs you run into immediately when trying it out. https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebView2Feedback/issues/2290 https://github.com/MicrosoftEdge/WebView2Feedback/issues/229...

rbanffy 4y ago

> but it just wasn't powerful enough. 4 GB of RAM and eMMC would never be comfortable for Windows development. I have a very small laptop like that and I'd never think of using it to do .NET development on it. OTOH, for Python-backed web apps and API-based services, it's quite sufficient.

my123 4y ago
That devkit wasn't intended to be a development but a testing device. But then they made a big mistake: putting Windows Home on it instead of Pro... so that it didn't have RDP...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]