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Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency. You can store bitcoin in your brain, get persecuted by your national government for c

by cwkoss 4y ago

Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency. You can store bitcoin in your brain, get persecuted by your national government for criticizing their actions, travel across a border, get kidnapped, offer up a decoy wallet, get released 3 years later, wander into a town with an internet cafe, and theoretically, you could have access to your funds within hours, without the consent of or dependence on any other centralized entity. Is this a fantasy that few if any people will ever utilize? Sure. Is it also super cool? I think so. I think the main demand of bitcoin is "money that isn't subject to federal reserve policy". No fiat currency in the world is effectively accomplishing that today. (Note: I had to stop using brainwallets three bubbles ago because I had recurring nightmares of getting a brain injury and losing access to my funds. Don't recommend it.)

Cheezewheel 4y ago
>Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency This is an absolute farce. Maybe talk to us when there are no longer reports of being able to easily scam someone out of all of their money with a non-reversable transaction just by sending them an image with a script in it.
- crummy 4y ago
  Emphasis on the "theoretically", I think.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  Name a currency that scammers don't get fools to part with.
  - bryananderson 4y ago
    At least with fiat currency you have a chance of getting the transaction reversed! Most people will not trust a currency where this is not possible, or at least they will hold it with a centralized trusted custodian who can offer transaction reversal—which defeats the purpose!
    - cwkoss 4y ago
      That isn't a property of fiat currency, that's a property of the bank/credit card you use. Someone could make a service with delayed settlement that is denominated with Bitcoin, and it would work just the same. If you pay someone with a $100 bill, your only recourse is to ask for them to return it: the same as Bitcoin.
      - bryananderson 4y ago
        Sure, but there’s no way for the delayed settlement mechanism to handle fuzzy real-world judgment calls (such as a dispute about whether a service was rendered or not) without resorting to a centralized oracle of some sort—and then you’ve broken trustlessness and may as well have avoided blockchain altogether and saved yourself the transaction fees.
robocat 4y ago
> Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency. Bitcoin is subject to federal policy as much as anything is: as much as secret Swiss bank accounts. You imply evasion works. But that certainly doesn't mean it is federally legal, legal with the IRS, or legal for whatever other reasons. You have the risk of serious consequences if you are caught breaking the laws that apply to you. Your argument implies that you can break the law without getting caught, but we already have surprising crypto counterexamples against that. Also, the market is slowly being split into legitimate trading (via centralised platforms with KYC rules) and illegitimate trading (for stolen bitcoins, or bitcoins tainted by tumbling with illegal bitcoins). As that plays out, it seems likely to become more difficult to actually trade your crypto without some laundering costs and risks. Keeping a number in your head or hiding some gold in your secret location are the same thing.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  A number in your head is portable. So with the exception of the 'border crossing' use case, I agree they are functionally the same thing. I suspect a lot of more of the 0.1% have gold hidden than many would expect. I've met two eccentric 100 millionaires that advocated for hiding gold as a wealth preservation mechanism. I think this is becoming the primary non-trading use case for Bitcoin - met both of those individuals through conversations about crypto.

by cwkoss 4y ago

Cheezewheel 4y ago

>Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency This is an absolute farce. Maybe talk to us when there are no longer reports of being able to easily scam someone out of all of their money with a non-reversable transaction just by sending them an image with a script in it.

crummy 4y ago
Emphasis on the "theoretically", I think.
cwkoss 4y ago
Name a currency that scammers don't get fools to part with.
- bryananderson 4y ago
  At least with fiat currency you have a chance of getting the transaction reversed! Most people will not trust a currency where this is not possible, or at least they will hold it with a centralized trusted custodian who can offer transaction reversal—which defeats the purpose!
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    That isn't a property of fiat currency, that's a property of the bank/credit card you use. Someone could make a service with delayed settlement that is denominated with Bitcoin, and it would work just the same. If you pay someone with a $100 bill, your only recourse is to ask for them to return it: the same as Bitcoin.
    - bryananderson 4y ago
      Sure, but there’s no way for the delayed settlement mechanism to handle fuzzy real-world judgment calls (such as a dispute about whether a service was rendered or not) without resorting to a centralized oracle of some sort—and then you’ve broken trustlessness and may as well have avoided blockchain altogether and saved yourself the transaction fees.

robocat 4y ago

> Bitcoin is the first (and most stable) theoretically unseizable currency. Bitcoin is subject to federal policy as much as anything is: as much as secret Swiss bank accounts. You imply evasion works. But that certainly doesn't mean it is federally legal, legal with the IRS, or legal for whatever other reasons. You have the risk of serious consequences if you are caught breaking the laws that apply to you. Your argument implies that you can break the law without getting caught, but we already have surprising crypto counterexamples against that. Also, the market is slowly being split into legitimate trading (via centralised platforms with KYC rules) and illegitimate trading (for stolen bitcoins, or bitcoins tainted by tumbling with illegal bitcoins). As that plays out, it seems likely to become more difficult to actually trade your crypto without some laundering costs and risks. Keeping a number in your head or hiding some gold in your secret location are the same thing.

cwkoss 4y ago
A number in your head is portable. So with the exception of the 'border crossing' use case, I agree they are functionally the same thing. I suspect a lot of more of the 0.1% have gold hidden than many would expect. I've met two eccentric 100 millionaires that advocated for hiding gold as a wealth preservation mechanism. I think this is becoming the primary non-trading use case for Bitcoin - met both of those individuals through conversations about crypto.