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You may not be the intended audience. For atheists (at least this atheist) everything that we are emerges from our bodies, and from our interaction with the en

You may not be the intended audience. For atheists (at least this atheist) everything that we are emerges from our bodies, and from our interaction with the environment and society, and death is the end of everything that we are. Some of us will be remembered for a little while, or make contributions that last a little while, but soon enough everything we are and everything we know will be gone. For me, learning to accept this is an important part of growing up and living well.

raydiatian 4y ago
Agnosticism is atheism++. Accepts that we don’t know what’s on the ‘other side’, which is more consistent with reality. I used to think I was atheist. “Believing” that the scope of life is finite is functionally a religion (or perhaps a pessimistic death cult), albeit one probably without overt practices and ceremonies. However, those fleeting inner meditations that “I’m going to die and then that is it” is an asceticism of your ‘soul’ (existence, ie the abstract scope of all you could be), which is practically a contradiction, like saying “I’m not here” even though you clearly are (even if reality is an illusion or something, we all agree you’re illusion is here).
- bittercynic 4y ago
  I like the acknowledgement that we don't know what's on the other side, but it is not an important part of my belief system. I don't think accepting our own demise, and believing that it is a final ending, means you're in a death cult. I want to live an exciting life, enjoy what earth has to offer, and be a part of society and make some kind of positive contribution, but I accept that my time is limited, and in my belief system death is truly the end of me. Making peace with this is not easy, but it is an important part of living for me. I do not mean do demean anyone else's beliefs. I wouldn't try to have this conversation in church, and it is socially risky where I am to discuss this kind of belief. I think I was looking for kindred spirits, or at least understanding.
- Nursie 4y ago
  What you're describing is not really atheism. Atheism is not a positive statement about anything, it's a lack of religion/belief in gods. I don't know if there's anything for us after death, but I have no good reason to think that there is. My lack of belief in an afterlife (or afterlives) is a functional assumption based on available evidence rather than an assertion of fact.
  - GuB-42 4y ago
    Positive atheism is a thing. It is the strongest form of atheism, where one believes that no god exists. It contrasts with negative atheism, where one does not believe that god exists. There are other forms of atheism, like people like very young children who are not aware of the concept of god and therefore can't be believers, people who want to stay out of any kind of religious belief, etc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism
    - raydiatian 4y ago
      > like people like very young children who are not aware of the concept of god This is so absurdly profound. I remember being like 4 years old and taught about god. My first distinction was “I have no idea what you’re talking about, man with white beard in the clouds? Show me.” Wonder who has gone the longest without being exposed to religion.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      It’s a vanishingly rare thing though, AFAICT.
  - raydiatian 4y ago
    > My lack of belief in an afterlife (or afterlives) is a functional assumption based on available evidence rather than an assertion of fact. There’s as much evidence supporting the theist’s belief in their afterlife as there is evidence supporting the atheist’s belief in a lack of an afterlife: none. Both are willful imaginations of what happens after death. One difference between theists and atheists is that atheists think science is on their side in this debate (the whole ‘lack of evidence’ argument), when it’s not, because physics is meant to measure this world[•], not “the next one”. Furthermore a lack of evidence is the weakest form of evidence to the contrary. In fact if anything, some theistic notions of heaven and hell seem to be closer approximations, given the end of life DMT flood and seeing your family in your fleeting moments, and anecdotal accounts of white lights, etc. How does one even experience a final moment? Can you ever truly die? These are all super metaphysical/philosophical questions. Of course, if we all die in nuclear hellfire, there are no pineal glands around to dump the DMT, and so reality is you may be right: the majority of our consciousnesses will literally just cease to exist. No pretty light show, just purgatorial nonbeing for all of nontime. Agnosticism gets it right by saying “the truth is I don’t have the answer and I’m smart enough to acknowledge that. I’ll know when I get there, I’m not trying to sell you anything.” Atheism is like like picking only the worst squares in Pascal’s wager, while agnosticism is telling Pascal to politely shove off altogether. Also, separate but related, Newton was trying to be closer to God when he invented/discovered mechanics. [•] Theist beliefs in mystical forces having physical interactions in this universe is a completely separate discussion, which I highly doubt, but then again we don’t have an answer for how to measure dark matter, and String theorists are allowed to pedal their observationless theories.
- GuB-42 4y ago
  The way I think of it: I have experienced non-existence for billions of years, I will experience it again after my death. Many people, religious or atheist, believe that the scope of life is finite in one direction: it starts at birth. Death is essentially the same thing, backwards. Now, there are some people who believe their existence is eternal in both directions. For example, Buddhists believe in reincarnation, and I think the question of the first incarnation and even the very notion of a "beginning" is left open.
  - rumpelstinkin 4y ago
    > The way I think of it: I have experienced non-existence for billions of years, I will experience it again after my death. sorry but that's extremely silly. Go read up Parmenides at the very least. If you don't exist, you don't exist, period; there's no experiencing, no you, no anything.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
You've already forgotten most of what you are because the vast majority of your life has faded from memory. What remains is an impression, a data point in a heuristic mechanism we call "experience". In the same way, when your body dies your actions in this existence will be a data point in the experience of the universe itself. We fear death because our brain needs to in order to survive effectively, but self is ultimately an illusion, a narrative we construct to weave together memory, present, and projected futures. We know this because self is malleable. We are capable of extending our conception of self into our children, our compatriots, or ideals, and trading "our" life for theirs. Similarly, we can collapse self into just our neural pattern and believe that a computer simulation is still us. Death is really not quite as big a deal as we think it is, in my opinion.
- Test0129 4y ago
  > Death is really not quite as big a deal as we think it is, in my opinion. I can tell you having lost many people in my life, some of them closer than others, this is very easy to say until you're the one doing the dying. Some people accept it better than others. I dont think anyone is actually comfortable with the thought. It's just a gradient of "dealing with it".
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    I too have lost people. Pretty much anyone my age will have unless they are tragically sheltered. I sometimes have said that a person isn't truly an adult until they've attended a good friend's funeral. I'm not saying death is a good time, just that some people have this conception of it like it is the greatest evil mankind faces or something. My sister is a hospice nurse so she talks to dying people all the time. She says some people cling desperately to life through horrible agony while others are almost impatient for it to happen despite not being in any significant discomfort. So I'd agree that there's a spectrum of being able to deal and I think I will live my life better if I try to be on the "can deal" end of that.
thunky 4y ago
Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead. There are way more dead people, and you’re all gonna die and then you’re gonna be dead for way longer than you’re alive. Like that’s mostly what you’re ever gonna be. You’re just dead people that didn’t die yet. - Louis C.K
- _carbyau_ 4y ago
  I like that quote. Some may see it as depressing but I see otherwise. To be dead for billions of years, means you had to be alive at all.
  - thunky 4y ago
    I too find it comforting in the same way looking up to the stars is. It puts our existence in context. In space, and in time.

raydiatian 4y ago

Agnosticism is atheism++. Accepts that we don’t know what’s on the ‘other side’, which is more consistent with reality. I used to think I was atheist. “Believing” that the scope of life is finite is functionally a religion (or perhaps a pessimistic death cult), albeit one probably without overt practices and ceremonies. However, those fleeting inner meditations that “I’m going to die and then that is it” is an asceticism of your ‘soul’ (existence, ie the abstract scope of all you could be), which is practically a contradiction, like saying “I’m not here” even though you clearly are (even if reality is an illusion or something, we all agree you’re illusion is here).

bittercynic 4y ago
I like the acknowledgement that we don't know what's on the other side, but it is not an important part of my belief system. I don't think accepting our own demise, and believing that it is a final ending, means you're in a death cult. I want to live an exciting life, enjoy what earth has to offer, and be a part of society and make some kind of positive contribution, but I accept that my time is limited, and in my belief system death is truly the end of me. Making peace with this is not easy, but it is an important part of living for me. I do not mean do demean anyone else's beliefs. I wouldn't try to have this conversation in church, and it is socially risky where I am to discuss this kind of belief. I think I was looking for kindred spirits, or at least understanding.
Nursie 4y ago
What you're describing is not really atheism. Atheism is not a positive statement about anything, it's a lack of religion/belief in gods. I don't know if there's anything for us after death, but I have no good reason to think that there is. My lack of belief in an afterlife (or afterlives) is a functional assumption based on available evidence rather than an assertion of fact.
- GuB-42 4y ago
  Positive atheism is a thing. It is the strongest form of atheism, where one believes that no god exists. It contrasts with negative atheism, where one does not believe that god exists. There are other forms of atheism, like people like very young children who are not aware of the concept of god and therefore can't be believers, people who want to stay out of any kind of religious belief, etc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_and_positive_atheism
  - raydiatian 4y ago
    > like people like very young children who are not aware of the concept of god This is so absurdly profound. I remember being like 4 years old and taught about god. My first distinction was “I have no idea what you’re talking about, man with white beard in the clouds? Show me.” Wonder who has gone the longest without being exposed to religion.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    It’s a vanishingly rare thing though, AFAICT.
- raydiatian 4y ago
  > My lack of belief in an afterlife (or afterlives) is a functional assumption based on available evidence rather than an assertion of fact. There’s as much evidence supporting the theist’s belief in their afterlife as there is evidence supporting the atheist’s belief in a lack of an afterlife: none. Both are willful imaginations of what happens after death. One difference between theists and atheists is that atheists think science is on their side in this debate (the whole ‘lack of evidence’ argument), when it’s not, because physics is meant to measure this world[•], not “the next one”. Furthermore a lack of evidence is the weakest form of evidence to the contrary. In fact if anything, some theistic notions of heaven and hell seem to be closer approximations, given the end of life DMT flood and seeing your family in your fleeting moments, and anecdotal accounts of white lights, etc. How does one even experience a final moment? Can you ever truly die? These are all super metaphysical/philosophical questions. Of course, if we all die in nuclear hellfire, there are no pineal glands around to dump the DMT, and so reality is you may be right: the majority of our consciousnesses will literally just cease to exist. No pretty light show, just purgatorial nonbeing for all of nontime. Agnosticism gets it right by saying “the truth is I don’t have the answer and I’m smart enough to acknowledge that. I’ll know when I get there, I’m not trying to sell you anything.” Atheism is like like picking only the worst squares in Pascal’s wager, while agnosticism is telling Pascal to politely shove off altogether. Also, separate but related, Newton was trying to be closer to God when he invented/discovered mechanics. [•] Theist beliefs in mystical forces having physical interactions in this universe is a completely separate discussion, which I highly doubt, but then again we don’t have an answer for how to measure dark matter, and String theorists are allowed to pedal their observationless theories.
GuB-42 4y ago
The way I think of it: I have experienced non-existence for billions of years, I will experience it again after my death. Many people, religious or atheist, believe that the scope of life is finite in one direction: it starts at birth. Death is essentially the same thing, backwards. Now, there are some people who believe their existence is eternal in both directions. For example, Buddhists believe in reincarnation, and I think the question of the first incarnation and even the very notion of a "beginning" is left open.
- rumpelstinkin 4y ago
  > The way I think of it: I have experienced non-existence for billions of years, I will experience it again after my death. sorry but that's extremely silly. Go read up Parmenides at the very least. If you don't exist, you don't exist, period; there's no experiencing, no you, no anything.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

You've already forgotten most of what you are because the vast majority of your life has faded from memory. What remains is an impression, a data point in a heuristic mechanism we call "experience". In the same way, when your body dies your actions in this existence will be a data point in the experience of the universe itself. We fear death because our brain needs to in order to survive effectively, but self is ultimately an illusion, a narrative we construct to weave together memory, present, and projected futures. We know this because self is malleable. We are capable of extending our conception of self into our children, our compatriots, or ideals, and trading "our" life for theirs. Similarly, we can collapse self into just our neural pattern and believe that a computer simulation is still us. Death is really not quite as big a deal as we think it is, in my opinion.

Test0129 4y ago
> Death is really not quite as big a deal as we think it is, in my opinion. I can tell you having lost many people in my life, some of them closer than others, this is very easy to say until you're the one doing the dying. Some people accept it better than others. I dont think anyone is actually comfortable with the thought. It's just a gradient of "dealing with it".
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
  I too have lost people. Pretty much anyone my age will have unless they are tragically sheltered. I sometimes have said that a person isn't truly an adult until they've attended a good friend's funeral. I'm not saying death is a good time, just that some people have this conception of it like it is the greatest evil mankind faces or something. My sister is a hospice nurse so she talks to dying people all the time. She says some people cling desperately to life through horrible agony while others are almost impatient for it to happen despite not being in any significant discomfort. So I'd agree that there's a spectrum of being able to deal and I think I will live my life better if I try to be on the "can deal" end of that.

thunky 4y ago

Out of the people that ever were, almost all of them are dead. There are way more dead people, and you’re all gonna die and then you’re gonna be dead for way longer than you’re alive. Like that’s mostly what you’re ever gonna be. You’re just dead people that didn’t die yet. - Louis C.K

_carbyau_ 4y ago
I like that quote. Some may see it as depressing but I see otherwise. To be dead for billions of years, means you had to be alive at all.
- thunky 4y ago
  I too find it comforting in the same way looking up to the stars is. It puts our existence in context. In space, and in time.