7 ms·

Antibody responses to Omicron BA.4/BA.5 bivalent mRNA vaccine booster shot

27 points by luu 4y ago

monksy 4y ago
bioRxiv posts many COVID19-related papers. A reminder: they have not been formally peer-reviewed and should not guide health-related behavior or be reported in the press as conclusive. This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review
- avg_dev 4y ago
  Appreciate the clarification.
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  However the results match previous data on modified Sinovac. Unfortunately similar lack of difference.
wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
We are the guinea pigs here. What is that famous dig on Facebook again? If you are not paying for it you ARE the product.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ndlzk 4y ago
- suyula 4y ago
  We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago, so now we're stuck being either guinea pigs for the vaccine or for the disease. So far the vaccine has been a safer bet by far.
  - realitysballs 4y ago
    I agree. There is risk in both the virus and the vaccine. And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet, although I’m sure specific biological/genetic factors can alter this calculation.
    - taolegal 4y ago
      > And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people, where measuring severe outcomes is a matter of how infinitesimally close to 0% it is, I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution vs. overly self-confident scientists working alongside pharmaceutical companies maximizing profit and minimizing any knowledge of side-effects and risks associated with their products.
      - belltaco 4y ago
        >I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution And yet it's not very good against smallpox which had a 30% mortality rate and higher in infants. Not to mention HIV or Ebola.
        taolegal 4y ago
        I love how you selectively omit my statement prefaced with "Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people," Smallpox is not covid, it's ridiculous to even compare them.
        AstralStorm 4y ago
        You're right, the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles. And it's more evasive than that - the vaccine and acquired immunity does not hold nearly as well. Measles was controlled by mass vaccination that provides for years of neutralizing antibody response combined with merciless quarantine on outbreaks. COVID vaccine of today does not achieve that. It's still much better than nothing, but insufficient to control it.
- lostmsu 4y ago
  > We are the guinea pigs here. That on its own is not necessarily a problem. Vaccination research is a variation on multiarmed bandit game, and pulling some arms is a requirement to play. Not pulling is a strategy, but not necessarily the best one.
- fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
  Are you the product when you drive on roads? When you visit the park? When you look up the forecast from the National Weather Service? The government (aka. tax dollars) pays for those too…
thehappypm 4y ago
Tiny anecdote, but I got covid exactly two weeks after the booster. I did test positive but it was extremely mild.
- refurb 4y ago
  It's becoming pretty clear that vaccine doesn't really protect against infection, it protects against severe disease, do your experience is pretty much in line.
  - Proven 4y ago
  - AstralStorm 4y ago
    It protects mostly against death and only partly against severe disease. And only for a few months after the shot too, really.
- glial 4y ago
  Same here.
- monksy 4y ago
  I can't answer this for Omicron however for delta and original strain, it took 3 days on average to become contagious and 5 days on average to become symptomatic/test positive with a RAT. (There are extreme examples of it being 14 days). It is more than reasonable that you were infected after the booster and before it was fully effective. The vaccine is reported to take 14 days to be considered to be in full effect.
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    It is possible. I chalk the booster up to giving me a very, very mild (borderline asymptomatic) case but the timing perhaps not giving me the zero symptoms.
tidenly 4y ago
I'm pro vax, but I'm hesitant to get my fourth.. I'm aware I may be an idiot here, but I just don't want to inject myself every six months for the foreseeable future. I've had covid two/three times now, and while the first time was hell, the other times I just had like a bad cold. The jabs on the other hand completely knocked me on my ass. I get a kind of full body lethargy and aches that last for a couple of days. Do I need to keep taking them? I'm honestly just holding out for a pill or spray form now..
- lostmsu 4y ago
  My recent experience with jabs had basically zero side effects. My wife had some though.
  - brewdad 4y ago
    Same here. All three jabs..no response. Finally caught Covid last month and had 3 days of a bad cold but still have a lingering 2 pack a day smoker's cough 4 weeks later. The wildfire smoke didn't help but I don't think it's the only cause of my cough.
- kyriakos 4y ago
  Similar to you I got 3 shots and covid. Covid was a mild cold. The 3rd shot had me in bed for 36 hours. Very hesitant to get the 4th booster.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Are otherwise healthy people really getting boosters? I had covid in early 2021 before the vaccines. I got a first dose in March 2021, and a second dose in November, only because I needed it for a wedding. I haven’t gotten sick since. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any means, but I also am not a fan of unnecessary medical intervention. To me, healthy people under 40 getting boosters seems like people freaking out over drinking half a glass of wine during pregnancy. It’s more about extreme risk aversion than major reductions in mortality.
  - tptacek 4y ago
js2 4y ago
[deleted]
- VancouverMan 4y ago
  > I really shudder to think how bad it would have been for her if she weren't vaccinated. I've heard this sentiment expressed by a number of people. How are you certain that the opposite couldn't have been true? How do you know, for instance, that the shots she took didn't happen to decrease her natural ability to fight off an infection?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
sfusato 4y ago
Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-programme/coronavirus-vaccine/ https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Vaccination-against-COVID-19 https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Vaccination-against... [2] https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022/08/atagi-recommendations-on-the-use-of-a-booster-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine.pdf https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022... [3] https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency... [4] https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-recommends-coronavirus-vaccine-booster-for-older-people-and-risk-groups-this-autumn https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-recommends-coronavirus-...
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5] [5] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-t...
  - sfusato 4y ago
    "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [6] https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/20221007-guidance-mrna-covid19-vaccines-doc.pdf https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/...

27 points by luu 4y ago

bioRxiv posts many COVID19-related papers. A reminder: they have not been formally peer-reviewed and should not guide health-related behavior or be reported in the press as conclusive. This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review

avg_dev 4y ago
Appreciate the clarification.
AstralStorm 4y ago
However the results match previous data on modified Sinovac. Unfortunately similar lack of difference.

wellthatsawrap1 4y ago

We are the guinea pigs here. What is that famous dig on Facebook again? If you are not paying for it you ARE the product.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ndlzk 4y ago
suyula 4y ago
We as a society didn't stop COVID 3 years ago, so now we're stuck being either guinea pigs for the vaccine or for the disease. So far the vaccine has been a safer bet by far.
- realitysballs 4y ago
  I agree. There is risk in both the virus and the vaccine. And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet, although I’m sure specific biological/genetic factors can alter this calculation.
  - taolegal 4y ago
    > And the vaccine is a statistically safer bet Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people, where measuring severe outcomes is a matter of how infinitesimally close to 0% it is, I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution vs. overly self-confident scientists working alongside pharmaceutical companies maximizing profit and minimizing any knowledge of side-effects and risks associated with their products.
    - belltaco 4y ago
      >I trust my immune system that's the product of millions of years of evolution And yet it's not very good against smallpox which had a 30% mortality rate and higher in infants. Not to mention HIV or Ebola.
      - taolegal 4y ago
        I love how you selectively omit my statement prefaced with "Given that the risk of infection is well studied now for average healthy people," Smallpox is not covid, it's ridiculous to even compare them.
        AstralStorm 4y ago
        You're right, the correct comparison for COVID is actually measles. And it's more evasive than that - the vaccine and acquired immunity does not hold nearly as well. Measles was controlled by mass vaccination that provides for years of neutralizing antibody response combined with merciless quarantine on outbreaks. COVID vaccine of today does not achieve that. It's still much better than nothing, but insufficient to control it.
lostmsu 4y ago
> We are the guinea pigs here. That on its own is not necessarily a problem. Vaccination research is a variation on multiarmed bandit game, and pulling some arms is a requirement to play. Not pulling is a strategy, but not necessarily the best one.
fshbbdssbbgdd 4y ago
Are you the product when you drive on roads? When you visit the park? When you look up the forecast from the National Weather Service? The government (aka. tax dollars) pays for those too…

thehappypm 4y ago

Tiny anecdote, but I got covid exactly two weeks after the booster. I did test positive but it was extremely mild.

refurb 4y ago
It's becoming pretty clear that vaccine doesn't really protect against infection, it protects against severe disease, do your experience is pretty much in line.
- Proven 4y ago
- AstralStorm 4y ago
  It protects mostly against death and only partly against severe disease. And only for a few months after the shot too, really.
glial 4y ago
Same here.
monksy 4y ago
I can't answer this for Omicron however for delta and original strain, it took 3 days on average to become contagious and 5 days on average to become symptomatic/test positive with a RAT. (There are extreme examples of it being 14 days). It is more than reasonable that you were infected after the booster and before it was fully effective. The vaccine is reported to take 14 days to be considered to be in full effect.
- thehappypm 4y ago
  It is possible. I chalk the booster up to giving me a very, very mild (borderline asymptomatic) case but the timing perhaps not giving me the zero symptoms.

tidenly 4y ago

I'm pro vax, but I'm hesitant to get my fourth.. I'm aware I may be an idiot here, but I just don't want to inject myself every six months for the foreseeable future. I've had covid two/three times now, and while the first time was hell, the other times I just had like a bad cold. The jabs on the other hand completely knocked me on my ass. I get a kind of full body lethargy and aches that last for a couple of days. Do I need to keep taking them? I'm honestly just holding out for a pill or spray form now..

lostmsu 4y ago
My recent experience with jabs had basically zero side effects. My wife had some though.
- brewdad 4y ago
  Same here. All three jabs..no response. Finally caught Covid last month and had 3 days of a bad cold but still have a lingering 2 pack a day smoker's cough 4 weeks later. The wildfire smoke didn't help but I don't think it's the only cause of my cough.
kyriakos 4y ago
Similar to you I got 3 shots and covid. Covid was a mild cold. The 3rd shot had me in bed for 36 hours. Very hesitant to get the 4th booster.
rayiner 4y ago
Are otherwise healthy people really getting boosters? I had covid in early 2021 before the vaccines. I got a first dose in March 2021, and a second dose in November, only because I needed it for a wedding. I haven’t gotten sick since. I’m not an anti-vaxxer by any means, but I also am not a fan of unnecessary medical intervention. To me, healthy people under 40 getting boosters seems like people freaking out over drinking half a glass of wine during pregnancy. It’s more about extreme risk aversion than major reductions in mortality.
- tptacek 4y ago

js2 4y ago

[deleted]

VancouverMan 4y ago
> I really shudder to think how bad it would have been for her if she weren't vaccinated. I've heard this sentiment expressed by a number of people. How are you certain that the opposite couldn't have been true? How do you know, for instance, that the shots she took didn't happen to decrease her natural ability to fight off an infection?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

sfusato 4y ago

Norway recommends booster doses for 65+ [0], Denmark for 50+ [1], Australia for 50+ [2], Sweeden for 65+ [3], Finland for 65+ [4]. [0] https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-programme/coronavirus-vaccine/ https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p... [1] https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Vaccination-against-COVID-19 https://www.sst.dk/en/English/Corona-eng/Vaccination-against... [2] https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022/08/atagi-recommendations-on-the-use-of-a-booster-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine.pdf https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2022... [3] https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency... [4] https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-recommends-coronavirus-vaccine-booster-for-older-people-and-risk-groups-this-autumn https://thl.fi/en/web/thlfi-en/-/thl-recommends-coronavirus-...

TechBro8615 4y ago
United States recommends booster does for 5+ [5] [5] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-t...
- sfusato 4y ago
  "The (Florida) State Surgeon General now recommends against the COVID-19 mRNA vaccines for males ages 18-39 years old." [6] [6] https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/20221007-guidance-mrna-covid19-vaccines-doc.pdf https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/...