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> I need that feature over there, and this one, and what about that one! This hits me hard as I am always 2 days before releasing my first roguelike game on St

by guzik 4y ago

> I need that feature over there, and this one, and what about that one! This hits me hard as I am always 2 days before releasing my first roguelike game on Steam since 2021 (shameless plug: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2053250/Hellway/ https://store.steampowered.com/app/2053250/Hellway/). > Release early and often Uhh, I really don't think it's a good advice for gamedev. I really miss the times when games were polished since v1.0. Random crash on boss fight? Hey, it's an early access / beta / v0.0.1 / we were in rush, forced by some non-sense deadline set by our kickstarter campaign (or ego). Wait for the updates!

kelseyfrog 4y ago
>> Release early and often > Uhh, I really don't think it's a good advice for gamedev. It is, but it leaves out a crucial bit of information, namely who is the audience to whom the game is released. It's important to get feedback early, especially gameplay feedback. At the same time, failed releases to the general public do little to inspire confidence or provide the valuable kind of feedback required in the early phases of development.
- Arrath 4y ago
  One potential downside to releasing early is the risk of a hardcore fanbase coalescing around the game, that knows every system and exploit in and out. As a result they then scream for the game to be harder, harder. And as such devoted and vocal fans for so long, the devs may be overly inclined to listen to them, to the detriment of the new/less experienced player experience. Among others, I think Risk of Rain fell prey to this, but I may be thinking of a different game.
  - Forgeties79 4y ago
    RoR is wildly punishing. Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the game you’re thinking of.
    - naet 4y ago
      Risk of rain on higher difficulties was always very hard from when I first played it early on, but that's part of what makes it fun for me. I really enjoy a roguelike where you don't win every time; something about the challenge makes a deep run much more satisfying. Classic roguelikes like Nethack are also incredibly hard to win.
      - Forgeties79 4y ago
        Oh I definitely don’t mean it as a negative thing. The game is just really hard!
handoflixue 4y ago
Most "early access" games I've played were about as bug-free as I'd expect from an old-school v1.0 launch: you'd occasionally hit an obscure hardware combo that caused crashes, etc. but it very definitely "worked on their device" When done well, it's about putting the concepts and mechanics in front of players, so that they can provide feedback. Maybe the magic system you have in mind is super confusing. Maybe you wrote a throw-away portion in a way that makes everyone think it's going to be central to the eventual plot. With a small group of friends, you get a lot of bias - you'll build the game your friends enjoy. The easiest way to find out how a commercial audience reacts is to expose it to a large number of players. Obviously there are BAD early access games that ignore this advice, but I've also played well-established games with numerous patches that are still full of bugs too.
dleslie 4y ago
Roguelike games usually draw me in, but you've populated your Steam page with what looks like mobile resolution videos. Mobile ports on PC are rarely appealing, the strong exceptions exist of course, but it may be to your benefit to show some videos at native PC resolutions.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
With modern-day development practices (think: modern, 'safer' languages, game development frameworks and automated testing), these things are much less common. You don't wait to fix bugs and work on stability until the last moment anymore, you create an MVP / POC and take it to early access and/or Kickstarter, then work on that basis. Like how most software is built these days.

by guzik 4y ago

kelseyfrog 4y ago

>> Release early and often > Uhh, I really don't think it's a good advice for gamedev. It is, but it leaves out a crucial bit of information, namely who is the audience to whom the game is released. It's important to get feedback early, especially gameplay feedback. At the same time, failed releases to the general public do little to inspire confidence or provide the valuable kind of feedback required in the early phases of development.

Arrath 4y ago
One potential downside to releasing early is the risk of a hardcore fanbase coalescing around the game, that knows every system and exploit in and out. As a result they then scream for the game to be harder, harder. And as such devoted and vocal fans for so long, the devs may be overly inclined to listen to them, to the detriment of the new/less experienced player experience. Among others, I think Risk of Rain fell prey to this, but I may be thinking of a different game.
- Forgeties79 4y ago
  RoR is wildly punishing. Wouldn’t surprise me if that’s the game you’re thinking of.
  - naet 4y ago
    Risk of rain on higher difficulties was always very hard from when I first played it early on, but that's part of what makes it fun for me. I really enjoy a roguelike where you don't win every time; something about the challenge makes a deep run much more satisfying. Classic roguelikes like Nethack are also incredibly hard to win.
    - Forgeties79 4y ago
      Oh I definitely don’t mean it as a negative thing. The game is just really hard!

handoflixue 4y ago

Most "early access" games I've played were about as bug-free as I'd expect from an old-school v1.0 launch: you'd occasionally hit an obscure hardware combo that caused crashes, etc. but it very definitely "worked on their device" When done well, it's about putting the concepts and mechanics in front of players, so that they can provide feedback. Maybe the magic system you have in mind is super confusing. Maybe you wrote a throw-away portion in a way that makes everyone think it's going to be central to the eventual plot. With a small group of friends, you get a lot of bias - you'll build the game your friends enjoy. The easiest way to find out how a commercial audience reacts is to expose it to a large number of players. Obviously there are BAD early access games that ignore this advice, but I've also played well-established games with numerous patches that are still full of bugs too.

dleslie 4y ago

Roguelike games usually draw me in, but you've populated your Steam page with what looks like mobile resolution videos. Mobile ports on PC are rarely appealing, the strong exceptions exist of course, but it may be to your benefit to show some videos at native PC resolutions.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

With modern-day development practices (think: modern, 'safer' languages, game development frameworks and automated testing), these things are much less common. You don't wait to fix bugs and work on stability until the last moment anymore, you create an MVP / POC and take it to early access and/or Kickstarter, then work on that basis. Like how most software is built these days.