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> To find the common appeal in a large heterogeneous group you have to interact with a lot of people and measure them repeatedly because people's tastes for com

> To find the common appeal in a large heterogeneous group you have to interact with a lot of people and measure them repeatedly because people's tastes for complex products is not something that can be well-modeled Or you could just go out and hire a good designer. Your comment just illustrates the problem why a lot of computer geeks don't get taste: they assume it's something you go out and measure. Any good designer will tell you: you do not measure taste and design for two simple reasons: (1) public taste is constantly changing, and (2) as soon as you can measure something, it's outdated. I call it the Heisenberg uncertainty of taste. If you go to the trouble of polling 10 million people, you will be 3 years behind; measuring the opinion of 100 million individuals will set you back 6 years behind the curve or maybe more. The kind of minimalistic web design that is commonly seen right now and which Facebook, Apple, Google, and others use was hot among the designer circles about seven years ago. If you tried measuring public taste at that time, you would get a result sheet listing PHP.net as "the" design to copy. You don't measure good design, you define it by producing something that's good and usable in some basic aspects yet not seen before and interesting in others.

aangjie 15y ago
+1 for the Heisenberg uncertainty of taste.. -1 for hire a good designer.. Not because it's a bad idea, but in the current context(Open-source) it's has a lesser probbability of working..... Though would like to see someone try and experiment...
_dps 15y ago
I think this is largely unfalsifiable. I have not seen evidence that designers, on average, know what people will want in advance. You absolutely need a designer to interpret what people tell you about their experiences with a prototype, but I don't think you can tell a designer "I'm building a tractor for your garden. Tell me how it should work." and expect an a priori good design from it. I'm open to being disproven on this matter, and I'm obviously biased toward empiricism, so if you have suggestions on references I'd be appreciative.
- bluekeybox 15y ago
  > I have not seen evidence that designers, on average, know what people will want in advance. Of course designers do not have magical powers and cannot predict future. However, one often can make a good guess about the future based on knowing who is widely imitated. Widely imitated people are influencers, and whatever they like will often be liked a few years from now. All great designers have a mental list of such influencers and they likely will never share it with you because that list is literally the source of their success. Also, if you are really great designer, you can directly make future happen without having to imitate others. I had a chat with one former roommate of mine who was going to a wedding when he asked me about my opinion on his shoes. The shoes were way too clubby (i.e. completely inappropriate for a wedding) and I was frankly horrified, telling him that I would never in a million years be seen at a wedding wearing that type of shoes. Next day, he shows me a very fell-fitted suit looking completely dapper yet still wearing those completely inappropriate shoes because he could not get a pair of shoes that fit on time (Saturday was right around the corner). Seeing his new outfit, I changed my opinion on the shoes and asked my roommate this question: "Do you know what happens when one item you are wearing is wrong and out-of-place but everything else about your outfit is completely and utterly awesome?" He responded, "Hmmm, no one notices?" I said, "No, you're wrong. That one out-of-place item becomes the new trend."
  - _dps 15y ago
    I think we are in agreement but coming at it from different viewpoints. As you say, designers do not have magical powers to predict the future. In a situation where you can't predict the future you have to make your best guess (designers help here), find out how good that guess was (interacting with lots of people happens here), and make your next guess (again, designers help here). Having a good designer doesn't eliminate the potentially expensive middle part where you need to find out how a large heterogeneous audience reacts to your current best guess.
    - bluekeybox 15y ago
      > Having a good designer doesn't eliminate the potentially expensive middle part where you need to find out how a large heterogeneous audience reacts to your current best guess. I absolutely agree. When trying to appeal to a large audience I would definitely do both -- if I had the money that is. Which part is more important (mass appeal or trendiness) depends on the kind of business you are doing.

aangjie 15y ago

+1 for the Heisenberg uncertainty of taste.. -1 for hire a good designer.. Not because it's a bad idea, but in the current context(Open-source) it's has a lesser probbability of working..... Though would like to see someone try and experiment...

_dps 15y ago

I think this is largely unfalsifiable. I have not seen evidence that designers, on average, know what people will want in advance. You absolutely need a designer to interpret what people tell you about their experiences with a prototype, but I don't think you can tell a designer "I'm building a tractor for your garden. Tell me how it should work." and expect an a priori good design from it. I'm open to being disproven on this matter, and I'm obviously biased toward empiricism, so if you have suggestions on references I'd be appreciative.

bluekeybox 15y ago
> I have not seen evidence that designers, on average, know what people will want in advance. Of course designers do not have magical powers and cannot predict future. However, one often can make a good guess about the future based on knowing who is widely imitated. Widely imitated people are influencers, and whatever they like will often be liked a few years from now. All great designers have a mental list of such influencers and they likely will never share it with you because that list is literally the source of their success. Also, if you are really great designer, you can directly make future happen without having to imitate others. I had a chat with one former roommate of mine who was going to a wedding when he asked me about my opinion on his shoes. The shoes were way too clubby (i.e. completely inappropriate for a wedding) and I was frankly horrified, telling him that I would never in a million years be seen at a wedding wearing that type of shoes. Next day, he shows me a very fell-fitted suit looking completely dapper yet still wearing those completely inappropriate shoes because he could not get a pair of shoes that fit on time (Saturday was right around the corner). Seeing his new outfit, I changed my opinion on the shoes and asked my roommate this question: "Do you know what happens when one item you are wearing is wrong and out-of-place but everything else about your outfit is completely and utterly awesome?" He responded, "Hmmm, no one notices?" I said, "No, you're wrong. That one out-of-place item becomes the new trend."
- _dps 15y ago
  I think we are in agreement but coming at it from different viewpoints. As you say, designers do not have magical powers to predict the future. In a situation where you can't predict the future you have to make your best guess (designers help here), find out how good that guess was (interacting with lots of people happens here), and make your next guess (again, designers help here). Having a good designer doesn't eliminate the potentially expensive middle part where you need to find out how a large heterogeneous audience reacts to your current best guess.
  - bluekeybox 15y ago
    > Having a good designer doesn't eliminate the potentially expensive middle part where you need to find out how a large heterogeneous audience reacts to your current best guess. I absolutely agree. When trying to appeal to a large audience I would definitely do both -- if I had the money that is. Which part is more important (mass appeal or trendiness) depends on the kind of business you are doing.