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Placing blame and responsibility on consumers to not purchase single-use plastic is not the right approach. Discouraging the use of single-use plastics should b

Placing blame and responsibility on consumers to not purchase single-use plastic is not the right approach. Discouraging the use of single-use plastics should be done at government policy level to heavily tax the sale of single-use plastics, and subsidize sustainable alternatives.

swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
Prices may increase but imagine how much more competitive American or European manufacturing could be if the cheapest materials (and incidentally most environmentally harmful) were taxed appropriately. There’s a cycle of waste where cheap goods break but its okay because its cheap. Instead we could be making things that last.
- thrown_22 4y ago
  Building products that last as long as possible is a sure fire way to destroy your market. You can't both build things that can be infinitely fixable and sell a steady stream of them.
  - swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
    This is only true if you hold a monopoly on the market. Durability is a competitive advantage that businesses and individuals will often clamor for. It’s not easy to replicate
    - thrown_22 4y ago
      And yet no one is building durable products.
      - swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
        There’s plenty of manufacturing devoted to quality, but often are outcompeted by outsourced manufacturing using questionable labor and lacking environmental safeguards. Hence why I advocate for taxing plastics
        thrown_22 4y ago
        >There’s plenty of manufacturing devoted to quality Name one.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        evancox100 4y ago
        Cars
        t-writescode 4y ago
        Carhart pants. Higher end TVs (so, Sony, LG, Samsung) iPhones last something like 7-8 years in an industry where things last 3, max *several* power tool and manual tool brands Basically any company that works with real leather. Victorinox Kitchen Aide Word travels for basically all high quality products. They also cost like they’re high quality.
        landemva 4y ago
        > Kitchen Aid Am pleased with the dishwasher and range from them. But the microwave electronics went out, so now I go with a cheap microwave.
        oliveshell 4y ago
        I believe they’re referring to the KitchenAid stand mixer, a piece of equipment that’s known for being stoutly built. [1] (I know several people who’ve had theirs for decades.) Sadly, anything other appliance branded KitchenAid is basically hit-or-miss. They license their name to other manufacturers for certain products, so you can’t count on the name on its own to guarantee quality. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18 https://youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18
      - zip1234 4y ago
        Cars are more durable than ever, electronics often become obsolete before their life ends, and many building material would last a lifetime but become out of fashion so are thrown away.
  - TomSwirly 4y ago
    Good news, then. We can avoid destroying our ecosystem and destroy companies that make shoddy goods that go quickly into the bin in one stroke!
sublinear 4y ago
I agree that this isn't the consumer's problem, but I don't agree government policy or taxes incentivize anything but fraud. Do we really need even more government contractors?
- samtho 4y ago
  Taxes are basically a shortcut to adjusting market forces to result in a more desirable behavior. Fraud is possible only if the incentive is poorly aligned with the result, allowing people to take advantage of an alternate, but easier, action to benefit from the program. Lawmakers who give in to the demands of special interests will inevitably create these loopholes, it does not happen in a vacuum.
ryandrake 4y ago
Product manufacturers should have to bear the cost of disposing the products/packaging they ship. It would be great if every product came stamped with some manufacturer ID code or something, and when you throw it away, the waste management company eventually scans it all and each manufacturer got billed based on material/weight/etc.
- Baader-Meinhof 4y ago
  Manufacturers would just transfers to the consumer. We have a CRV tax for each bottle/can here in California, and as far as I can tell, it has no affect on consumer behavior.
  - hinkley 4y ago
    Here it's become a cottage industry for the homeless to go around collecting and turning in materials.
  - gruez 4y ago
    >Manufacturers would just transfers to the consumer As opposed to not transferring the cost when they're forced to use glass bottles or whatever? Plastic is used because it's cheap. Switching to alternatives would undoubtedly cost more money. >We have a CRV tax for each bottle/can here in California, and as far as I can tell, it has no affect on consumer behavior. Maybe this says something about the effectiveness of plastic bottles? If consumers/companies are still choosing plastic bottles even though they have to pay the disposal costs, maybe this means that plastic bottles are better as a whole and we shouldn't be trying to force a switch to alternatives?
  - LordDragonfang 4y ago
    CRV doesn't work as well because it's not on the (literal) sticker price, so it gets appended after the consumer has already made a buying decision in most cases.
hinkley 4y ago
I think you can go farther than this that it's in the interests of industry to deflect blame to individual citizens because it distracts from the fact that big problems need to be solved at choke-points, and manufacturing is one of the biggest ones we have.
daniel-cussen 4y ago

swagasaurus-rex 4y ago

Prices may increase but imagine how much more competitive American or European manufacturing could be if the cheapest materials (and incidentally most environmentally harmful) were taxed appropriately. There’s a cycle of waste where cheap goods break but its okay because its cheap. Instead we could be making things that last.

thrown_22 4y ago
Building products that last as long as possible is a sure fire way to destroy your market. You can't both build things that can be infinitely fixable and sell a steady stream of them.
- swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
  This is only true if you hold a monopoly on the market. Durability is a competitive advantage that businesses and individuals will often clamor for. It’s not easy to replicate
  - thrown_22 4y ago
    And yet no one is building durable products.
    - swagasaurus-rex 4y ago
      There’s plenty of manufacturing devoted to quality, but often are outcompeted by outsourced manufacturing using questionable labor and lacking environmental safeguards. Hence why I advocate for taxing plastics
      - thrown_22 4y ago
        >There’s plenty of manufacturing devoted to quality Name one.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        evancox100 4y ago
        Cars
        t-writescode 4y ago
        Carhart pants. Higher end TVs (so, Sony, LG, Samsung) iPhones last something like 7-8 years in an industry where things last 3, max *several* power tool and manual tool brands Basically any company that works with real leather. Victorinox Kitchen Aide Word travels for basically all high quality products. They also cost like they’re high quality.
        landemva 4y ago
        > Kitchen Aid Am pleased with the dishwasher and range from them. But the microwave electronics went out, so now I go with a cheap microwave.
        oliveshell 4y ago
        I believe they’re referring to the KitchenAid stand mixer, a piece of equipment that’s known for being stoutly built. [1] (I know several people who’ve had theirs for decades.) Sadly, anything other appliance branded KitchenAid is basically hit-or-miss. They license their name to other manufacturers for certain products, so you can’t count on the name on its own to guarantee quality. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18 https://youtube.com/watch?v=0qKp-0h9P18
    - zip1234 4y ago
      Cars are more durable than ever, electronics often become obsolete before their life ends, and many building material would last a lifetime but become out of fashion so are thrown away.
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  Good news, then. We can avoid destroying our ecosystem and destroy companies that make shoddy goods that go quickly into the bin in one stroke!

sublinear 4y ago

I agree that this isn't the consumer's problem, but I don't agree government policy or taxes incentivize anything but fraud. Do we really need even more government contractors?

samtho 4y ago
Taxes are basically a shortcut to adjusting market forces to result in a more desirable behavior. Fraud is possible only if the incentive is poorly aligned with the result, allowing people to take advantage of an alternate, but easier, action to benefit from the program. Lawmakers who give in to the demands of special interests will inevitably create these loopholes, it does not happen in a vacuum.

ryandrake 4y ago

Product manufacturers should have to bear the cost of disposing the products/packaging they ship. It would be great if every product came stamped with some manufacturer ID code or something, and when you throw it away, the waste management company eventually scans it all and each manufacturer got billed based on material/weight/etc.

Baader-Meinhof 4y ago
Manufacturers would just transfers to the consumer. We have a CRV tax for each bottle/can here in California, and as far as I can tell, it has no affect on consumer behavior.
- hinkley 4y ago
  Here it's become a cottage industry for the homeless to go around collecting and turning in materials.
- gruez 4y ago
  >Manufacturers would just transfers to the consumer As opposed to not transferring the cost when they're forced to use glass bottles or whatever? Plastic is used because it's cheap. Switching to alternatives would undoubtedly cost more money. >We have a CRV tax for each bottle/can here in California, and as far as I can tell, it has no affect on consumer behavior. Maybe this says something about the effectiveness of plastic bottles? If consumers/companies are still choosing plastic bottles even though they have to pay the disposal costs, maybe this means that plastic bottles are better as a whole and we shouldn't be trying to force a switch to alternatives?
- LordDragonfang 4y ago
  CRV doesn't work as well because it's not on the (literal) sticker price, so it gets appended after the consumer has already made a buying decision in most cases.

hinkley 4y ago

I think you can go farther than this that it's in the interests of industry to deflect blame to individual citizens because it distracts from the fact that big problems need to be solved at choke-points, and manufacturing is one of the biggest ones we have.

daniel-cussen 4y ago