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>> You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iO

>> You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. >> Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss... It would be another choice. Yes, they have similar incentives, but more choices help to drive innovation and keep all players competitive. >> And you are in the modernity and so much so that it wouldn’t be a profitable business. Do you think Microsoft is going to give you that? No. Microsoft is a better position than many to be a third choice in smartphone platforms, but they have shown poor initiative in the mobile space. They could try again or it could be some other organization with sufficient know-how and daring. (Something disruptive like Tesla or Starlink perhaps?) >> Have the majority of users been clamoring for it? "If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse." --Henry Ford "Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do." --Steve Jobs >> Where are all of the “innovations” that the majority of people care about - or even enough to make a profitable business - on Android where you can sideload and have third party web browser engines? Android is innovative because it is more open than iOS. Even more innovation is possible given the right circumstances.

scarface74 4y ago
> I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers”. > Android is innovative because it is more open than iOS. Even more innovation is possible given the right circumstances “Open” is not an “innovation”.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Who said anything about using Linux on phones? I agree that a third smartphone platform would need to be user friendly. Whether based on Linux, OpenBSD, QNX, Symbian, or something is just a technical detail. >> Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers” No one asked for iPhone. They were quite happy with their Blackberry and Treo phones. My personal wants for a smartphone are not why having a third smartphone platform would help innovation and competition in the current stagnant duopoly. >> “Open” is not an “innovation”. Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners. iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fails-placate-developers/ https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail... Android developers face similar troubles: http://www.fosspatents.com/2022/07/developer-class-action-settlement-with.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2022/07/developer-class-action-se... The current smartphone duopoly is just two competing monopolies with consumers and developers caught in the middle. Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets: https://appfairness.org/ https://appfairness.org/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/10/24/common-charger-eu-ministers-give-final-approval-to-one-size-fits-all-charging-port/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022... Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    > Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners. If you ask 99%+ of phone users. They don’t care about a “closed” phone platform anymore than console owners care. > iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail... And what percentage of iOS users that collectively making billions are “suffering”? > Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets: And failing miserable. The market has spoken. > Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation. And yet, it wasn’t “open standards” that brought any of the “innovations” to the market that users care about. How many decades have Linux advocates been promising the “year of the Linux desktop”?
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> If you ask 99%+ of phone users. They don’t care about a “closed” phone platform anymore than console owners care. No one cares until they are personally impacted. >> And failing miserable. The market has spoken. Markets shift with time and circumstances. Those on top will not be there forever. >> And yet, it wasn’t “open standards” that brought any of the “innovations” to the market that users care about. Most users are ignorant of the standards that they rely on. iOS and Android are built on POSIX standards and rely on numerous networking and telecommunication standards. The Internet and World Wide Web that people use their smartphones to access are built on standards. The "magical" experiences that Apple sells to users would not be possible without a veritable book of engineering standards: https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/ https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/ https://www.iso.org/home.html https://www.iso.org/home.html https://www.ecma-international.org/ https://www.ecma-international.org/ >> How many decades have Linux advocates been promising the “year of the Linux desktop”? I am not sure why you keep pulling Linux into the discussion. Just because Android uses Linux does not mean that other smartphone platforms would use it.

scarface74 4y ago

> I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers”. > Android is innovative because it is more open than iOS. Even more innovation is possible given the right circumstances “Open” is not an “innovation”.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> Using Linux on the phone with the lack of integration, the poor interface etc is the opposite of “consumer friendly”. Who said anything about using Linux on phones? I agree that a third smartphone platform would need to be user friendly. Whether based on Linux, OpenBSD, QNX, Symbian, or something is just a technical detail. >> Normal consumers are not asking for the ability to “program their phone and run media servers” No one asked for iPhone. They were quite happy with their Blackberry and Treo phones. My personal wants for a smartphone are not why having a third smartphone platform would help innovation and competition in the current stagnant duopoly. >> “Open” is not an “innovation”. Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners. iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fails-placate-developers/ https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail... Android developers face similar troubles: http://www.fosspatents.com/2022/07/developer-class-action-settlement-with.html http://www.fosspatents.com/2022/07/developer-class-action-se... The current smartphone duopoly is just two competing monopolies with consumers and developers caught in the middle. Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets: https://appfairness.org/ https://appfairness.org/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022/10/24/common-charger-eu-ministers-give-final-approval-to-one-size-fits-all-charging-port/ https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2022... Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation.
- scarface74 4y ago
  > Yes, but "Closed" sucks for everyone but the platform owners. If you ask 99%+ of phone users. They don’t care about a “closed” phone platform anymore than console owners care. > iOS developers have been suffering and Apple has little reason it fix the issues: https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail https://www.wired.com/story/apples-app-store-review-fix-fail... And what percentage of iOS users that collectively making billions are “suffering”? > Some organizations are trying to get "Open" smartphone marketplaces and more choice and competition in the markets: And failing miserable. The market has spoken. > Open standards and open markets encourage real competition and innovation. And yet, it wasn’t “open standards” that brought any of the “innovations” to the market that users care about. How many decades have Linux advocates been promising the “year of the Linux desktop”?
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> If you ask 99%+ of phone users. They don’t care about a “closed” phone platform anymore than console owners care. No one cares until they are personally impacted. >> And failing miserable. The market has spoken. Markets shift with time and circumstances. Those on top will not be there forever. >> And yet, it wasn’t “open standards” that brought any of the “innovations” to the market that users care about. Most users are ignorant of the standards that they rely on. iOS and Android are built on POSIX standards and rely on numerous networking and telecommunication standards. The Internet and World Wide Web that people use their smartphones to access are built on standards. The "magical" experiences that Apple sells to users would not be possible without a veritable book of engineering standards: https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/ https://www.ietf.org/standards/rfcs/ https://www.iso.org/home.html https://www.iso.org/home.html https://www.ecma-international.org/ https://www.ecma-international.org/ >> How many decades have Linux advocates been promising the “year of the Linux desktop”? I am not sure why you keep pulling Linux into the discussion. Just because Android uses Linux does not mean that other smartphone platforms would use it.