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Another, closely related example: A lot of the welding abilities needed to build another Saturn V were lost. We couldn’t replicate the rocket without having a l

by elil17 4y ago

Another, closely related example: A lot of the welding abilities needed to build another Saturn V were lost. We couldn’t replicate the rocket without having a lot of people relearn old welding techniques.

avmich 4y ago
> We couldn’t replicate the rocket without having a lot of people relearn old welding techniques. We can perhaps create sufficiently close replicas, which may work well enough, using very different technologies.
throwaway4aday 4y ago
This seems at odds with the current production of several launch systems of comparable or greater size. Do you know which parts required these special welding techniques?
- elil17 4y ago
  We have better ways to do things now - adhesives, new welding techniques that impose different design constraints, etc. IIRC there was some thought of reusing parts of the Saturn V design on the Artemis program but it was not practical because of the welds involved.
  - throwaway4aday 4y ago
    Isn't the Starship simply being welded together from stainless steel sheet metal?
HyperSane 4y ago
Making a Saturn V today wouldn't make sense because manufacturing tech has improved tremendously since then. They didn't even have CAD! A modern design would take perhaps a tenth of the hours of labor.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  In particular, and apropos to the comment you are responding to, we have a wonderful new way to weld aluminum alloys: friction stir welding. It was invented in the 1990s, long after Apollo.
  - postalrat 4y ago
    Lets see your fancy friction welding work on compound curves you might see on a rocket engine.
    - selectodude 4y ago
      "United Launch Alliance applies FSW to the Delta II, Delta IV, Atlas V, and the new Vulcan expendable launch vehicles along with their Cryogenic Upper Stages, and the first of these with a friction stir welded interstage module was launched in 1999. The process was also used for the Space Shuttle external tank, for Ares I until the project was canceled in 2012, The SLS Core which replaced the Ares, and for the Orion Crew Vehicle test article and the current model of the Orion at NASA, as well as Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 rockets at SpaceX.[53] The toe nails for ramp of Boeing C-17 Globemaster III cargo aircraft by Advanced Joining Technologies[7] and the cargo barrier beams for the Boeing 747 Large Cargo Freighter[7] were the first commercially produced aircraft parts. FAA-approved wings and fuselage panels of the Eclipse 500 aircraft were made at Eclipse Aviation, and this company delivered 259 friction stir welded business jets, before they were forced into Chapter 7 liquidation. Floor panels for Airbus A400M military aircraft are now made by Pfalz Flugzeugwerke and Embraer used FSW for the Legacy 450 and 500 Jets[8] Friction stir welding also is employed for fuselage panels on the Airbus A380.[54] BRÖTJE-Automation uses friction stir welding for gantry production machines developed for the aerospace sector, as well as other industrial applications.[55]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      We're talking about Apollo. Which rocket engine there was made of aluminum? The F-1 was made of Inconel, the J-2 of stainless steel.
agumonkey 4y ago
aren't there other industries with similar welding skills ? nuclear plants seem to have high grade requirements, maybe not space grade right off the bat but also maybe not too far off ?

by elil17 4y ago

avmich 4y ago

> We couldn’t replicate the rocket without having a lot of people relearn old welding techniques. We can perhaps create sufficiently close replicas, which may work well enough, using very different technologies.

throwaway4aday 4y ago

This seems at odds with the current production of several launch systems of comparable or greater size. Do you know which parts required these special welding techniques?

elil17 4y ago
We have better ways to do things now - adhesives, new welding techniques that impose different design constraints, etc. IIRC there was some thought of reusing parts of the Saturn V design on the Artemis program but it was not practical because of the welds involved.
- throwaway4aday 4y ago
  Isn't the Starship simply being welded together from stainless steel sheet metal?

HyperSane 4y ago

Making a Saturn V today wouldn't make sense because manufacturing tech has improved tremendously since then. They didn't even have CAD! A modern design would take perhaps a tenth of the hours of labor.

pfdietz 4y ago
In particular, and apropos to the comment you are responding to, we have a wonderful new way to weld aluminum alloys: friction stir welding. It was invented in the 1990s, long after Apollo.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Lets see your fancy friction welding work on compound curves you might see on a rocket engine.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    "United Launch Alliance applies FSW to the Delta II, Delta IV, Atlas V, and the new Vulcan expendable launch vehicles along with their Cryogenic Upper Stages, and the first of these with a friction stir welded interstage module was launched in 1999. The process was also used for the Space Shuttle external tank, for Ares I until the project was canceled in 2012, The SLS Core which replaced the Ares, and for the Orion Crew Vehicle test article and the current model of the Orion at NASA, as well as Falcon 1 and Falcon 9 rockets at SpaceX.[53] The toe nails for ramp of Boeing C-17 Globemaster III cargo aircraft by Advanced Joining Technologies[7] and the cargo barrier beams for the Boeing 747 Large Cargo Freighter[7] were the first commercially produced aircraft parts. FAA-approved wings and fuselage panels of the Eclipse 500 aircraft were made at Eclipse Aviation, and this company delivered 259 friction stir welded business jets, before they were forced into Chapter 7 liquidation. Floor panels for Airbus A400M military aircraft are now made by Pfalz Flugzeugwerke and Embraer used FSW for the Legacy 450 and 500 Jets[8] Friction stir welding also is employed for fuselage panels on the Airbus A380.[54] BRÖTJE-Automation uses friction stir welding for gantry production machines developed for the aerospace sector, as well as other industrial applications.[55]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_stir_welding
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    We're talking about Apollo. Which rocket engine there was made of aluminum? The F-1 was made of Inconel, the J-2 of stainless steel.

agumonkey 4y ago

aren't there other industries with similar welding skills ? nuclear plants seem to have high grade requirements, maybe not space grade right off the bat but also maybe not too far off ?