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>> I'd argue that Microsoft entering the mobile OS market is worse than having a duopoly Would please you elaborate your argument? Personally, I think having

>> I'd argue that Microsoft entering the mobile OS market is worse than having a duopoly Would please you elaborate your argument? Personally, I think having more choices would be better. The Apple vs. Google duopoly is limiting for consumers and developers. Would you rather have an expensive device that you barely control or a cheaper device that spies on you? More choices and competition, please.

scarface74 4y ago
So what exactly are “consumers” clamoring for that are not currently being delivered?
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> So what exactly are “consumers” clamoring for that are not currently being delivered? Until other choices are available, people tend to accept the default or keep on doing what was done in the past. There is a segment of consumers that would like choices beyond Apple and Google mobile operating systems: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/can-i-buy-a-phone-that-does-not-use-anything-from-google-or-apple https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/c... https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternatives-to-apple-google-and-samsung/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternativ... https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-free-open-source-mobile-oses-to-try https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-fr... Personally, I would like to see more "convergence" devices that let the little computer I carry around with me be anything I want it to be: a programmable general purpose computer, a streaming media server, or whatever else I want. There are some projects that offer such functionality, but most require expert knowledge to setup or are not very widely-adopted or not very mature: https://maruos.com/ https://maruos.com/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Walled gardens are not where innovation happens because the gardeners uproot whatever does not meet their vision.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/can-i-buy-a-phone-that-does-not-use-anything-from-google-or-apple https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/c... Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss… > https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternatives-to-apple-google-and-samsung/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternativ... And those alternatives are already out there and no one wants them in a first approximation to no one > https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-free-open-source-mobile-oses-to-try https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-fr... Okay. So they are “out there to try”. Have the majority of users been clamoring for it? > Personally, I would like to see more "convergence" devices that let the little computer I carry around with me be anything I want it to be: a programmable general purpose computer, a streaming media server, or whatever else I want. And you are in the modernity and so much so that it wouldn’t be a profitable business. Do you think Microsoft is going to give you that? > Walled gardens are not where innovation happens because the gardeners uproot whatever does not meet their vision. Where are all of the “innovations” that the majority of people care about - or even enough to make a profitable business - on Android where you can sideload and have third party web browser engines?
    - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
      >> You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. >> Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss... It would be another choice. Yes, they have similar incentives, but more choices help to drive innovation and keep all players competitive. >> And you are in the modernity and so much so that it wouldn’t be a profitable business. Do you think Microsoft is going to give you that? No. Microsoft is a better position than many to be a third choice in smartphone platforms, but they have shown poor initiative in the mobile space. They could try again or it could be some other organization with sufficient know-how and daring. (Something disruptive like Tesla or Starlink perhaps?) >> Have the majority of users been clamoring for it? "If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse." --Henry Ford "Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do." --Steve Jobs >> Where are all of the “innovations” that the majority of people care about - or even enough to make a profitable business - on Android where you can sideload and have third party web browser engines? Android is innovative because it is more open than iOS. Even more innovation is possible given the right circumstances.
ridgered4 4y ago
Not the OP but I've had this thought as well. Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings. From there the consumer space would be weaker and enterprise may start to ignore iOS/Android altogether. iOS and Android may well be to entrenched at this point for this to be a realistic fear, but based on how aggressively Google reacted to Windows phone (The youtube app fiasco) I think they at least worry about it a great deal. Ideally, we'd have 3 or more fairly evenly matched and interoperable OS choices on mobile and desktop but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Trapping the monopoly inside it's own castle may be the best we can get. I feel similarly about people calling for Apple to open iOS up to different browser engines. Idealistically that is what I believe should happen, but realistically I think it would just result in Chrome being even more dominate. For the same reason I lament the death of IE and even the original Edge. I don't personally use IE or Safari but I benefited from them existing and having decent market share. > Would you rather have an expensive device that you barely control or a cheaper device that spies on you? It is unclear to me if modern Windows actually still spies on you any less than Google at this point. My feeling is if still does, it isn't by much.
- thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
  >> Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings. >> It is unclear to me if modern Windows actually still spies on you any less than Google at this point. My feeling is if still does, it isn't by much. Microsoft is in a good position to be a strong third contender in the mobile space, but that does not mean that they would be better in all aspects. >> Ideally, we'd have 3 or more fairly evenly matched and interoperable OS choices on mobile and desktop but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Trapping the monopoly inside it's own castle may be the best we can get. Yes. That is why I would like to see more choices with hopefully better treatment of consumers and developers. Right now consumers have limited choices and the mobile development experience is agonizingly painful. It seems like an opportunity for disruption, but the entrenched players are dug in deep and probably nearly impossible to dislodge.

scarface74 4y ago

So what exactly are “consumers” clamoring for that are not currently being delivered?

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> So what exactly are “consumers” clamoring for that are not currently being delivered? Until other choices are available, people tend to accept the default or keep on doing what was done in the past. There is a segment of consumers that would like choices beyond Apple and Google mobile operating systems: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/can-i-buy-a-phone-that-does-not-use-anything-from-google-or-apple https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/c... https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternatives-to-apple-google-and-samsung/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternativ... https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-free-open-source-mobile-oses-to-try https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-fr... Personally, I would like to see more "convergence" devices that let the little computer I carry around with me be anything I want it to be: a programmable general purpose computer, a streaming media server, or whatever else I want. There are some projects that offer such functionality, but most require expert knowledge to setup or are not very widely-adopted or not very mature: https://maruos.com/ https://maruos.com/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/ Walled gardens are not where innovation happens because the gardeners uproot whatever does not meet their vision.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/can-i-buy-a-phone-that-does-not-use-anything-from-google-or-apple https://www.theguardian.com/technology/askjack/2019/jul/04/c... Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss… > https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternatives-to-apple-google-and-samsung/ https://vivaldi.com/blog/technology/smartphones-5-alternativ... And those alternatives are already out there and no one wants them in a first approximation to no one > https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-free-open-source-mobile-oses-to-try https://www.pcmag.com/picks/break-away-from-android-ios-7-fr... Okay. So they are “out there to try”. Have the majority of users been clamoring for it? > Personally, I would like to see more "convergence" devices that let the little computer I carry around with me be anything I want it to be: a programmable general purpose computer, a streaming media server, or whatever else I want. And you are in the modernity and so much so that it wouldn’t be a profitable business. Do you think Microsoft is going to give you that? > Walled gardens are not where innovation happens because the gardeners uproot whatever does not meet their vision. Where are all of the “innovations” that the majority of people care about - or even enough to make a profitable business - on Android where you can sideload and have third party web browser engines?
  - thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
    >> You really don’t think you’re out of touch with what most users want? I don't claim to speak for what most people want. I think having more options than iOS and Android could help promote more consumer-friendly choices. >> Yes because using an operating system from the other 1 trillion dollar market cap company is going to be a better alternative. Meet the new boss... It would be another choice. Yes, they have similar incentives, but more choices help to drive innovation and keep all players competitive. >> And you are in the modernity and so much so that it wouldn’t be a profitable business. Do you think Microsoft is going to give you that? No. Microsoft is a better position than many to be a third choice in smartphone platforms, but they have shown poor initiative in the mobile space. They could try again or it could be some other organization with sufficient know-how and daring. (Something disruptive like Tesla or Starlink perhaps?) >> Have the majority of users been clamoring for it? "If I had asked my customers what they wanted they would have said a faster horse." --Henry Ford "Some people say give the customers what they want, but that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do." --Steve Jobs >> Where are all of the “innovations” that the majority of people care about - or even enough to make a profitable business - on Android where you can sideload and have third party web browser engines? Android is innovative because it is more open than iOS. Even more innovation is possible given the right circumstances.

ridgered4 4y ago

Not the OP but I've had this thought as well. Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings. From there the consumer space would be weaker and enterprise may start to ignore iOS/Android altogether. iOS and Android may well be to entrenched at this point for this to be a realistic fear, but based on how aggressively Google reacted to Windows phone (The youtube app fiasco) I think they at least worry about it a great deal. Ideally, we'd have 3 or more fairly evenly matched and interoperable OS choices on mobile and desktop but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Trapping the monopoly inside it's own castle may be the best we can get. I feel similarly about people calling for Apple to open iOS up to different browser engines. Idealistically that is what I believe should happen, but realistically I think it would just result in Chrome being even more dominate. For the same reason I lament the death of IE and even the original Edge. I don't personally use IE or Safari but I benefited from them existing and having decent market share. > Would you rather have an expensive device that you barely control or a cheaper device that spies on you? It is unclear to me if modern Windows actually still spies on you any less than Google at this point. My feeling is if still does, it isn't by much.

thesuperbigfrog 4y ago
>> Microsoft has an almost unassailable position on desktop even still. If they had a solid position in mobile they could probably expel Android/iOS from enterprise with the same bundling tactics they use to push out different software on Windows with their own (often but not always) inferior offerings. >> It is unclear to me if modern Windows actually still spies on you any less than Google at this point. My feeling is if still does, it isn't by much. Microsoft is in a good position to be a strong third contender in the mobile space, but that does not mean that they would be better in all aspects. >> Ideally, we'd have 3 or more fairly evenly matched and interoperable OS choices on mobile and desktop but that doesn't seem likely to happen. Trapping the monopoly inside it's own castle may be the best we can get. Yes. That is why I would like to see more choices with hopefully better treatment of consumers and developers. Right now consumers have limited choices and the mobile development experience is agonizingly painful. It seems like an opportunity for disruption, but the entrenched players are dug in deep and probably nearly impossible to dislodge.