6 ms·

Most children who think they’re transgender are going through a ‘phase’ – NHS

42 points by ryzvonusef 4y ago

DanBC 4y ago
This is a fundamentally dishonest headline. The Cass Review hasn't said that it's a phrase; she's encouraging more treatment in more treatment centres.
ryzvonusef 4y ago
> Most children who believe that they are transgender are just going through a “phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them to change their names and pronouns. > NHS England has announced plans for tightening controls on the treatment of under 18s questioning their gender, including a ban on prescribing puberty blockers outside of strict clinical trials. > The services, which will replace the controversial Tavistock clinic, will be led by medical doctors rather than therapists and will consider the impact of other conditions such as autism and mental health issues. > The plans, which are currently under public consultation, are for an interim service for young people with gender dysphoria whilst Dr Hilary Cass continues her review into the treatment offered by the NHS. https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/B1937-ii-Interim-service-specification-for-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-for-children-and-young-people-.pdf https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/B1937-... https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0...
- ryzvonusef 4y ago
  From what I understand, this arise from various lawsuits against NHS policies > NHS gender clinic 'should have challenged me more' over transition - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020 > Man sues NHS on same day as gender reassignment surgery claiming he made 'biggest mistake of his life' - https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-sues-nhs-same-day-27318325 https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-sues... > Hundreds of families could sue transgender clinic Tavistock for medical negligence - https://evangelicalfocus.com/europe/18187/hundreds-of-families-could-sue-transgender-clinic-tavistock-for-medical-malpractice https://evangelicalfocus.com/europe/18187/hundreds-of-famili...
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  "Puberty blockers" are the same class - and same effects as - the chemicals used to castrate gay people and pedophiles, including Alan Turing. Something the UK has since officially apologized for. I wonder if there are more apologies to come.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    Not at all! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker , "The most commonly used puberty blockers are gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone_agonist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone... , which shows the structure of "Leuprorelin, one of the most widely used GnRH agonists" and says: > They are agonists of the GnRH receptor and work by increasing or decreasing the release of gonadotropins and the production of sex hormones by the gonads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing says "He accepted hormone treatment with DES, a procedure commonly referred to as chemical castration, as an alternative to prison." That's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol , "a nonsteroidal estrogen medication". > DES is an estrogen, or an agonist of the estrogen receptors, the biological target of estrogens like estradiol Different structure classes, different targets, and different effects.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
60secs 4y ago
Pick one 1. people are purely hard wired to a particular gender. 2. gender is a purely social construct 3. Birth sex/genetics/epigenetics strongly influence behavior. However desires and opinions are strongly swayed by mimetic influences such that people change frequently, especially if they are young
- Normille 4y ago
  4: Pre-pubescence and pubescence really fucks with your horomones and your mind and leaves you searching for a reason why you feel 'different' to [how you assume] everyone else around you feels. Not saying truly transgender people don't exist but the huge explosion in numbers since it became socially acceptable means that either there's "something in the water" which is increasing the number of transgender people around, or a lot of vulnerable young people approaching and going through puberty and feeling confused and different are convincing themselves they're transgender [because it's all over the news], where back in my day they'd be fretting that they might be gay. I think the danger is in the fact that, for someone at that vulnerable age, convincing yourself you're transgender can lead to you undergoing life-changing, physical alteration to your body, where convincing yourself you must be gay might have lead to a few embarrassing memories, in later life.
  - taolegal 4y ago
    There's something in the water, metaphorically or otherwise, because if you go to, for example, brooklyn everyone looks the same. The idea that they are expressing some genuine, unique essence is a complete farce. They conform to the same predictable style. It's actually laughable that this entire identity predicated on individuality is a medicalized uniform. They practically universally have strict, intolerant and conformist opinions too.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      Malvina Reynolds would suggest this has been the case for a long time, so why pick on Brooklyn? Quoting her from "Little Boxes", 1962: And the people in the houses All went to the university Where they were put in boxes And they came out all the same And there's doctors and lawyers And business executives And they're all made out of ticky tacky And they all look just the same And they all play on the golf course And drink their martinis dry And they all have pretty children And the children go to school And the children go to summer camp And then to the university Where they are put in boxes And they come out all the same And the boys go into business And marry and raise a family In boxes made of ticky tacky And they all look just the same
jobs_throwaway 4y ago
Headline doesn't seem to match the content of the article. The big change is that gender dysphoric children will now be treated by medical doctors rather than therapists and hormone specialists. I can't imagine how anyone would oppose such a change, absent an extreme bias towards transitioning.
- DanBC 4y ago
  "Hormone specialists" are endocrinologists are are qualified, trained, registered, doctors working within their expertise, and when they prescribe meds to a small number of people they're prescribing meds that are licenced to prevent puberty in children (albeit not in trans children) -- this is considerably better licensing that most paediatric meds.
- ryzvonusef 4y ago
  The 'phase' terminology seems to be used by quite a few UK publications, or words similar to that effect.
  - DanBC 4y ago
    But not in the actual Cass Review interim report. The reporting was so bad she's had to issue a clarification letter.
TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
Most children who believe that they are left-handed are just going through a “phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them to change the hand they write with.
- postalrat 4y ago
  Most children who don't like the opposite sex are going through a "phase", the NHS has said.
- mannykannot 4y ago
  Your attempt at sarcasm fizzles in its subordinate clause, as it warns against a practice that was once commonly attempted, but is now recognized to be harmful.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
    I didn't say which direction the change was. You seem to have made the wrong assumption(?)
    - mannykannot 4y ago
      My comment is not predicated on any assumptions about a direction of change of anything, only on the fact that the warning is against a practice generally regarded as harmful on entirely reasonable grounds, without any appeal to the spurious claim of your main clause. I may be mistaken in thinking your goal was sarcasm or ridicule, but if so, then I must admit that I have no idea what you are intending to say here.
ttpphd 4y ago
This is also what people said about my being gay. We are in the middle of a shot-for-shot remake of the anti-gay panic.
- NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
  Or the two things are different.
- thefz 4y ago
  There's a fundamental difference between who you are attracted to and your body image.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- taolegal 4y ago
  Transgenderism as a broad social wave spreading mimetically through children & adolescents is precisely anti-gay. Liberals (more often than anyone else) have medicalized homosexuality. You're not a lesbian, you're a man. You're not gay, you're a woman. People must immediately stop foisting irreversible and radical medical procedures onto vulnerable and impressionable youth. It's predatory and obvious profiteering, it's an entire industry.
  - ttpphd 4y ago
    What a conspiracy theory, sheesh
    - taolegal 4y ago
      this is the default response to try to ignore child abuse
- 6nf 4y ago
  We do not medicate or operate on gay kids, this is a different story.
ccity88 4y ago
Anyone condemning NHS England for these moves must look beyond current political/social discourse at the implications of allowing children who are unable to vote, drink, drive or any of the ""adult"" things to permanently modify their body. The research isn't clear, the science isn't clear, and the fact that this has become a political issue is quite frankly, alarming. The right thing to do is more research, which is what's currently happening. The NHS is right to publish guidelines that fit our current model of knowledge, and until new evidence shows that gender dysphoria _isn't_ a phase, we should continue to treat this like any other psychological issue as we have previously.
proshno 4y ago

42 points by ryzvonusef 4y ago

This is a fundamentally dishonest headline. The Cass Review hasn't said that it's a phrase; she's encouraging more treatment in more treatment centres.

ryzvonusef 4y ago

> Most children who believe that they are transgender are just going through a “phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them to change their names and pronouns. > NHS England has announced plans for tightening controls on the treatment of under 18s questioning their gender, including a ban on prescribing puberty blockers outside of strict clinical trials. > The services, which will replace the controversial Tavistock clinic, will be led by medical doctors rather than therapists and will consider the impact of other conditions such as autism and mental health issues. > The plans, which are currently under public consultation, are for an interim service for young people with gender dysphoria whilst Dr Hilary Cass continues her review into the treatment offered by the NHS. https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/B1937-ii-Interim-service-specification-for-specialist-gender-dysphoria-services-for-children-and-young-people-.pdf https://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/B1937-... https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/Cass-Review-Interim-Report-Final-Web-Accessible.pdf https://cass.independent-review.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/0...

ryzvonusef 4y ago
From what I understand, this arise from various lawsuits against NHS policies > NHS gender clinic 'should have challenged me more' over transition - https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020 https://www.bbc.com/news/health-51676020 > Man sues NHS on same day as gender reassignment surgery claiming he made 'biggest mistake of his life' - https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-sues-nhs-same-day-27318325 https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-sues... > Hundreds of families could sue transgender clinic Tavistock for medical negligence - https://evangelicalfocus.com/europe/18187/hundreds-of-families-could-sue-transgender-clinic-tavistock-for-medical-malpractice https://evangelicalfocus.com/europe/18187/hundreds-of-famili...
NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
"Puberty blockers" are the same class - and same effects as - the chemicals used to castrate gay people and pedophiles, including Alan Turing. Something the UK has since officially apologized for. I wonder if there are more apologies to come.
- eesmith 4y ago
  Not at all! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puberty_blocker , "The most commonly used puberty blockers are gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonists". See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone_agonist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonadotropin-releasing_hormone... , which shows the structure of "Leuprorelin, one of the most widely used GnRH agonists" and says: > They are agonists of the GnRH receptor and work by increasing or decreasing the release of gonadotropins and the production of sex hormones by the gonads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing says "He accepted hormone treatment with DES, a procedure commonly referred to as chemical castration, as an alternative to prison." That's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol , "a nonsteroidal estrogen medication". > DES is an estrogen, or an agonist of the estrogen receptors, the biological target of estrogens like estradiol Different structure classes, different targets, and different effects.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

60secs 4y ago

Pick one 1. people are purely hard wired to a particular gender. 2. gender is a purely social construct 3. Birth sex/genetics/epigenetics strongly influence behavior. However desires and opinions are strongly swayed by mimetic influences such that people change frequently, especially if they are young

Normille 4y ago
4: Pre-pubescence and pubescence really fucks with your horomones and your mind and leaves you searching for a reason why you feel 'different' to [how you assume] everyone else around you feels. Not saying truly transgender people don't exist but the huge explosion in numbers since it became socially acceptable means that either there's "something in the water" which is increasing the number of transgender people around, or a lot of vulnerable young people approaching and going through puberty and feeling confused and different are convincing themselves they're transgender [because it's all over the news], where back in my day they'd be fretting that they might be gay. I think the danger is in the fact that, for someone at that vulnerable age, convincing yourself you're transgender can lead to you undergoing life-changing, physical alteration to your body, where convincing yourself you must be gay might have lead to a few embarrassing memories, in later life.
- taolegal 4y ago
  There's something in the water, metaphorically or otherwise, because if you go to, for example, brooklyn everyone looks the same. The idea that they are expressing some genuine, unique essence is a complete farce. They conform to the same predictable style. It's actually laughable that this entire identity predicated on individuality is a medicalized uniform. They practically universally have strict, intolerant and conformist opinions too.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    Malvina Reynolds would suggest this has been the case for a long time, so why pick on Brooklyn? Quoting her from "Little Boxes", 1962: And the people in the houses All went to the university Where they were put in boxes And they came out all the same And there's doctors and lawyers And business executives And they're all made out of ticky tacky And they all look just the same And they all play on the golf course And drink their martinis dry And they all have pretty children And the children go to school And the children go to summer camp And then to the university Where they are put in boxes And they come out all the same And the boys go into business And marry and raise a family In boxes made of ticky tacky And they all look just the same

jobs_throwaway 4y ago

Headline doesn't seem to match the content of the article. The big change is that gender dysphoric children will now be treated by medical doctors rather than therapists and hormone specialists. I can't imagine how anyone would oppose such a change, absent an extreme bias towards transitioning.

DanBC 4y ago
"Hormone specialists" are endocrinologists are are qualified, trained, registered, doctors working within their expertise, and when they prescribe meds to a small number of people they're prescribing meds that are licenced to prevent puberty in children (albeit not in trans children) -- this is considerably better licensing that most paediatric meds.
ryzvonusef 4y ago
The 'phase' terminology seems to be used by quite a few UK publications, or words similar to that effect.
- DanBC 4y ago
  But not in the actual Cass Review interim report. The reporting was so bad she's had to issue a clarification letter.

TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago

Most children who believe that they are left-handed are just going through a “phase”, the NHS has said, as it warns that doctors should not encourage them to change the hand they write with.

postalrat 4y ago
Most children who don't like the opposite sex are going through a "phase", the NHS has said.
mannykannot 4y ago
Your attempt at sarcasm fizzles in its subordinate clause, as it warns against a practice that was once commonly attempted, but is now recognized to be harmful.
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  I didn't say which direction the change was. You seem to have made the wrong assumption(?)
  - mannykannot 4y ago
    My comment is not predicated on any assumptions about a direction of change of anything, only on the fact that the warning is against a practice generally regarded as harmful on entirely reasonable grounds, without any appeal to the spurious claim of your main clause. I may be mistaken in thinking your goal was sarcasm or ridicule, but if so, then I must admit that I have no idea what you are intending to say here.

ttpphd 4y ago

This is also what people said about my being gay. We are in the middle of a shot-for-shot remake of the anti-gay panic.

NaturalPhallacy 4y ago
Or the two things are different.
thefz 4y ago
There's a fundamental difference between who you are attracted to and your body image.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
taolegal 4y ago
Transgenderism as a broad social wave spreading mimetically through children & adolescents is precisely anti-gay. Liberals (more often than anyone else) have medicalized homosexuality. You're not a lesbian, you're a man. You're not gay, you're a woman. People must immediately stop foisting irreversible and radical medical procedures onto vulnerable and impressionable youth. It's predatory and obvious profiteering, it's an entire industry.
- ttpphd 4y ago
  What a conspiracy theory, sheesh
  - taolegal 4y ago
    this is the default response to try to ignore child abuse
6nf 4y ago
We do not medicate or operate on gay kids, this is a different story.

ccity88 4y ago

Anyone condemning NHS England for these moves must look beyond current political/social discourse at the implications of allowing children who are unable to vote, drink, drive or any of the ""adult"" things to permanently modify their body. The research isn't clear, the science isn't clear, and the fact that this has become a political issue is quite frankly, alarming. The right thing to do is more research, which is what's currently happening. The NHS is right to publish guidelines that fit our current model of knowledge, and until new evidence shows that gender dysphoria _isn't_ a phase, we should continue to treat this like any other psychological issue as we have previously.

proshno 4y ago