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>After weeks of rising international tension following threats by President Vladimir Putin to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons... W

>After weeks of rising international tension following threats by President Vladimir Putin to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons... Which he never said. I know they say "Truth is the first casualty of war" but actually witnessing it in action is just jaw-dropping.

V__ 4y ago
What do you mean he never said it? Here he is saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gZUQMqDAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gZUQMqDAI
- Normille 4y ago
  Yes. I've seen that before. Here's the transcript of what he said: мы сделаем все чтобы обеспечить безопасные условия для проведения референдумов для того чтобы люди могли выразить свою волю это решение о своем будущем которое примет большинство жителей Донецкой и Луганской народных республик Запорожской и Херсонской областей мы поддержим в своей агрессивной антироссийской политики Запад перешел всякую грань мы постоянно слышим угрозы в адрес нашей страны нашего народа некоторые безответственные политики на западе не только говорят о планах по организации поставок Украине дальнобойных наступательных вооружений систем которые позволят наносить удары по Крыму другим регионам России такие террористические удары в том числе с использованием западного оружия уже наносится по приграничным населенным пунктам Белгородской Курской областей вход пошел и ядерный Шантаж речь идет Не только о поощряемых западом обстрелах Запорожской атомной электростанции Что грозит атомная катастрофы высказывание некоторых высокопоставленных представителей ведущих государств НАТО возможностей и допустимости применения против России оружия массового поражения ядерного оружия тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения А по отдельным компонентам и более современными чем у стран НАТО и при угрозе территориальной целостности нашей страны для защиты России и нашего народа мы безусловно используем все имеющиеся в нашем распоряжении средства это не Блеф А те кто пытаются шантажировать нас ядерным должны знать что Роза ветров может развернуться и And a Google-translation: we will do everything to ensure safe conditions for holding referendums so that people can express their will this decision about their future, which will be made by the majority of residents of the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics of Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, we will support in its aggressive anti-Russian policy, the West has crossed every line, we constantly hear threats against our country, our people, some irresponsible politicians in the West not only talk about plans to organize the supply of long-range offensive weapons to Ukraine that will allow strikes on Crimea to other regions of Russia, such terrorist strikes, including with the use of Western weapons, are already inflicted on border settlements Belgorod Kursk region has entered and nuclear Blackmail is not only about the shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant encouraged by the West What threatens a nuclear catastrophe is the statement of some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO states of the possibilities and admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction A for individual components and more modern than those of NATO countries and with a threat to the territorial integrity of our country to protect Russia and our people, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff, and those who are trying to blackmail us with a nuclear weapon should know that the prevailing winds can blow in their direction. Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"? Because the only time he mmentions nuclear weapons by name, he's referring to threars from NATO to use them on Russia and saying he'll respond in kind if this happens. Exactly the same response any other country would make; "If you nuke us, we'll nuke you back". Do you think the US or any other NATO country would say any different? How on earth does this get mutated into 'Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons'? It's the same kind of doublethink which mutates 'We're not going to buy your gas any more' into 'Russia turned off the taps'. You don't have to be an apologist for what Russia has done to Ukraine [and I'm not!] to be alarmed at how public opinion is being manipulated here. It's just depressing that it's even working on the HN audience which I always assumed to be a bit less gullible and a bit more questioning. God only knows what crap people who get their news from the tabloid press are being spoon-fed here!
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - avmich 4y ago
    > Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"? Here - тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction This is direct threat, very serious from the person in Putin's position.
    - Normille 4y ago
      Again, you're making the same [deliberate?] error everyone else is making. He's threatening he'll RETALIATE accordingly if the West/NATO uses nuclear weapons against Russia. This is EXACTLY the same stated "No first Strike" policy as every single NATO member has. So why are we not seeing reports that "USA threatens to use nuclear weapons against China"? Because I bet if you, if asked, the US would make EXACTLY the same 'threats'.
      - avmich 4y ago
        No, you just don't understand him. Putin and his guys threaten whatever, and will do whatever they think they can get away with. Again, you're in dangerous delusion that Putin doesn't evaluate first strikes. I don't think China is relevant here.
        Normille 4y ago
        Again you're [deliberately?] misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing about whether or not Putin will use nuclear weapons, or whether or not he would launch a first strike. My argument is entirely about the fact that the media is reporting that he "threatened to use nuclear weapons" as a direct quote, when he didn't utter those actual words. Whether he will or not, isn't the issue here. I said elsewhere in this thread how surprised I was that even HN's supposedly above average intelligence readership was failing to spot these manipulations. Your reply kind of proves the point. Somehow my pointing out that "The media has quoted Putin as saying X when he didn't actually say those words" has mutated into "Normille doesn't believe Putin will do X" It's this distinction really so difficult for people to grasp?

V__ 4y ago

What do you mean he never said it? Here he is saying it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gZUQMqDAI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8gZUQMqDAI

Normille 4y ago
Yes. I've seen that before. Here's the transcript of what he said: мы сделаем все чтобы обеспечить безопасные условия для проведения референдумов для того чтобы люди могли выразить свою волю это решение о своем будущем которое примет большинство жителей Донецкой и Луганской народных республик Запорожской и Херсонской областей мы поддержим в своей агрессивной антироссийской политики Запад перешел всякую грань мы постоянно слышим угрозы в адрес нашей страны нашего народа некоторые безответственные политики на западе не только говорят о планах по организации поставок Украине дальнобойных наступательных вооружений систем которые позволят наносить удары по Крыму другим регионам России такие террористические удары в том числе с использованием западного оружия уже наносится по приграничным населенным пунктам Белгородской Курской областей вход пошел и ядерный Шантаж речь идет Не только о поощряемых западом обстрелах Запорожской атомной электростанции Что грозит атомная катастрофы высказывание некоторых высокопоставленных представителей ведущих государств НАТО возможностей и допустимости применения против России оружия массового поражения ядерного оружия тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения А по отдельным компонентам и более современными чем у стран НАТО и при угрозе территориальной целостности нашей страны для защиты России и нашего народа мы безусловно используем все имеющиеся в нашем распоряжении средства это не Блеф А те кто пытаются шантажировать нас ядерным должны знать что Роза ветров может развернуться и And a Google-translation: we will do everything to ensure safe conditions for holding referendums so that people can express their will this decision about their future, which will be made by the majority of residents of the Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics of Zaporozhye and Kherson regions, we will support in its aggressive anti-Russian policy, the West has crossed every line, we constantly hear threats against our country, our people, some irresponsible politicians in the West not only talk about plans to organize the supply of long-range offensive weapons to Ukraine that will allow strikes on Crimea to other regions of Russia, such terrorist strikes, including with the use of Western weapons, are already inflicted on border settlements Belgorod Kursk region has entered and nuclear Blackmail is not only about the shelling of the Zaporozhye nuclear power plant encouraged by the West What threatens a nuclear catastrophe is the statement of some high-ranking representatives of the leading NATO states of the possibilities and admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction A for individual components and more modern than those of NATO countries and with a threat to the territorial integrity of our country to protect Russia and our people, we will certainly use all the means at our disposal, this is not a bluff, and those who are trying to blackmail us with a nuclear weapon should know that the prevailing winds can blow in their direction. Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"? Because the only time he mmentions nuclear weapons by name, he's referring to threars from NATO to use them on Russia and saying he'll respond in kind if this happens. Exactly the same response any other country would make; "If you nuke us, we'll nuke you back". Do you think the US or any other NATO country would say any different? How on earth does this get mutated into 'Putin threatened to use nuclear weapons'? It's the same kind of doublethink which mutates 'We're not going to buy your gas any more' into 'Russia turned off the taps'. You don't have to be an apologist for what Russia has done to Ukraine [and I'm not!] to be alarmed at how public opinion is being manipulated here. It's just depressing that it's even working on the HN audience which I always assumed to be a bit less gullible and a bit more questioning. God only knows what crap people who get their news from the tabloid press are being spoon-fed here!
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- avmich 4y ago
  > Perhaps you can show me where he made "threats ... to defend Russia's "territorial integrity" with nuclear weapons"? Here - тем кто позволяет себе такие заявления в отношении России хочу напомнить что наша страна также располагает различными средствами поражения admissibility of the use of weapons of mass destruction of nuclear weapons against Russia by those who allow themselves such statements regarding Russia, I want to remind you that our country also has various means of destruction This is direct threat, very serious from the person in Putin's position.
  - Normille 4y ago
    Again, you're making the same [deliberate?] error everyone else is making. He's threatening he'll RETALIATE accordingly if the West/NATO uses nuclear weapons against Russia. This is EXACTLY the same stated "No first Strike" policy as every single NATO member has. So why are we not seeing reports that "USA threatens to use nuclear weapons against China"? Because I bet if you, if asked, the US would make EXACTLY the same 'threats'.
    - avmich 4y ago
      No, you just don't understand him. Putin and his guys threaten whatever, and will do whatever they think they can get away with. Again, you're in dangerous delusion that Putin doesn't evaluate first strikes. I don't think China is relevant here.
      - Normille 4y ago
        Again you're [deliberately?] misunderstanding me. I'm not arguing about whether or not Putin will use nuclear weapons, or whether or not he would launch a first strike. My argument is entirely about the fact that the media is reporting that he "threatened to use nuclear weapons" as a direct quote, when he didn't utter those actual words. Whether he will or not, isn't the issue here. I said elsewhere in this thread how surprised I was that even HN's supposedly above average intelligence readership was failing to spot these manipulations. Your reply kind of proves the point. Somehow my pointing out that "The media has quoted Putin as saying X when he didn't actually say those words" has mutated into "Normille doesn't believe Putin will do X" It's this distinction really so difficult for people to grasp?