6 ms·

I want to install Linux on one of these and use it as a low power consumption home server.

piperswe 4y ago
Same here - with 32GB of RAM I could easily replace my main home server (which runs NixOS, so I can easily just rebuild the system for aarch64). I wonder how quickly people will get Linux running on these...
- whalesalad 4y ago
  The M1 can run Asahi Linux, which I imagine is going to outperform this. https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8cx-gen-3-intel-apple-3068879/ https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8cx-gen-3-intel-...
  - radicaldreamer 4y ago
    Exactly, this is priced very similarly to the Mac Mini with M1 (soon to be updated to use an M2) and can already run Linux fairly well.
    - dihydro 4y ago
      Mac Mini has no option for 32GB of RAM, and with 512GB of SSD storage is $899. How is that similar in price to $599?
      - Tomte 4y ago
        There are two nines. Pretty similar, I'd say.
        yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Performing a substring comparison on integers isn't a useful operation.
    - PaulWaldman 4y ago
      I wouldn't say the pricing is similar. This retails at $599 with 32GB of RAM. The Mac mini is $1,199 with 16GB of RAM. edit: Was off on pricing of the Mac mini by $100.
    - jbverschoor 4y ago
      It looks like a macmini
      - rbanffy 4y ago
        It tries really hard. The previous one looked like a Roku.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
nick88msn 4y ago
From what MS says you cannot do it out of the box.
- my123 4y ago
  You'll need to wait a bit until a new device tree comes for these devices. Given that support for the ThinkPad X13s with the same SoC is coming along... going to happen pretty soon.
  - mdaniel 4y ago
    For others similarly interested, it turns out "X13s" is not "multiple X13 models" but rather "X13s" is the model number: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/thinkpad-x13s-(13-inch-snapdragon)/len101t0019 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th... and is currently listed at USD$995 for "Gen 1" and all the way up to USD$1570 for the high end
  - FeistySkink 4y ago
    Which things currently work and don't with X13s?
kcb 4y ago
Snapdragon chips have pretty good Linux support. And the GPU driver is in a good state with Freedreno for desktop use. So probably a decent chance of it being functional shortly.
gjsman-1000 4y ago
I don't know why you would buy one, even if it were available, unless power-efficiency was a crucial component for a server. Can you imagine what you could get, on eBay, in a small form factor, for $600? I made off with a i3-8100T (about 3/4s as powerful, 35W TDP), with 16GB of RAM, and a 256GB SSD in an ultra-small-form-factor case for less than $150. For $600, it makes absolutely no sense against anything used. Let's say it drew 50W vs 20W total use at 10 cents per KWh. It would take 5 years to save $130, if you ran it 24/7/365. A $450 used Intel small-form-factor system would run circles around it in performance (especially after any emulation / code conversion) and you'd break even.
- ohmyblock 4y ago
  Would you mind sending a link to the i3-8100T box you bought?
- megous 4y ago
  More like 30-50c https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snippetpicker%22%3A%22EEX-PXE%20Czech%20Power%20Futures%22%7D https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snipp... Anything power hungry gets really expensive quickly for home use, these days.
- alias_neo 4y ago
  Imagine for a second there are other countries in the world. Now let's say in Europe, just one of them was called "The United Kingdom", where after a recent (temporary) energy price cap, electricity prices rose to _only_ 36p/kWh (41 cents US at current rates), and further rise are expected, and the cap had an end, bringing us potentially to double the current uni rate, then do the maths again and see why it might be a "crucial" component for many. Running old, cheap hardware with high power usage has been impractical here and many other parts of the world for quite some time and that was before recent disastrous rises.
  - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
    Problem is, we are not talking about 10 year old hardware. I find it sadly more likely that hardware from 5 years ago will consume less than hardware from a couple months ago. I myself have an x86 atom where the entire system can idle at <2W, which is no easy feat unless you start reusing phone hardware...
mackal 4y ago
Secure boot is going to be forced on.
- sedatk 4y ago
  which Linux can run on perfectly fine.
  - vetinari 4y ago
    Depends if it will enforce Windows' CA only, or if it will trust UEFI 3rd party CA too. See also "Secured-core PCs".
    - Scharkenberg 4y ago
      Despite much FUD spread in Linux nerd circles online, Linux can run just fine on it.
      - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
        I have a Surface RT which disagrees.
        Scharkenberg 4y ago
        In case it was not immediately obvious, this discussion is not about the Surface RT, but about the Windows Dev Kit 2023. It ships with a different Windows version, on a different Arm architecture, with different policies regarding locking down.
        AshamedCaptain 4y ago
        And? "In case it was not immediately obvious" by me specifically pointing an MS ARM device, MS's "policies" when shipping ARM devices have been much more locked down than x86. Around 50% of ARM devices released by MS so far have been completely locked down, incapable of running anything except for some version of Windows. Not just "FUD by nerd circles".
rr888 4y ago
I was going to say you should just use a raspberry pi, but you can't get those any more anyway. :)
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  And RPIs are not very good regarding power consumption, neither idle power nor efficiency.
gigel82 4y ago
I have a N6005 box from AliExpress ($180 bare, about $300 with 32Gb RAM and a nice 512Gb M.2 nvme) that runs a bunch of workloads (Proxmox VE on the metal, opnSense in a VM doing all my routing, plus 4 LXCs with 20+ Dockers for various services). Just looked over the energy report and it's averaging 0.18kWh daily (so the average power draw is 7.5W) - that's with a 3.5in SATA HDD. Better power use than my Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB HDD! If low power consumption is your main motivator, I'd say you can do a lot better with one of those instead.

Same here - with 32GB of RAM I could easily replace my main home server (which runs NixOS, so I can easily just rebuild the system for aarch64). I wonder how quickly people will get Linux running on these...

whalesalad 4y ago
The M1 can run Asahi Linux, which I imagine is going to outperform this. https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8cx-gen-3-intel-apple-3068879/ https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8cx-gen-3-intel-...
- radicaldreamer 4y ago
  Exactly, this is priced very similarly to the Mac Mini with M1 (soon to be updated to use an M2) and can already run Linux fairly well.
  - dihydro 4y ago
    Mac Mini has no option for 32GB of RAM, and with 512GB of SSD storage is $899. How is that similar in price to $599?
    - Tomte 4y ago
      There are two nines. Pretty similar, I'd say.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
        Performing a substring comparison on integers isn't a useful operation.
  - PaulWaldman 4y ago
    I wouldn't say the pricing is similar. This retails at $599 with 32GB of RAM. The Mac mini is $1,199 with 16GB of RAM. edit: Was off on pricing of the Mac mini by $100.
  - jbverschoor 4y ago
    It looks like a macmini
    - rbanffy 4y ago
      It tries really hard. The previous one looked like a Roku.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

nick88msn 4y ago

From what MS says you cannot do it out of the box.

my123 4y ago
You'll need to wait a bit until a new device tree comes for these devices. Given that support for the ThinkPad X13s with the same SoC is coming along... going to happen pretty soon.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  For others similarly interested, it turns out "X13s" is not "multiple X13 models" but rather "X13s" is the model number: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/thinkpad-x13s-(13-inch-snapdragon)/len101t0019 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/p/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpadx/th... and is currently listed at USD$995 for "Gen 1" and all the way up to USD$1570 for the high end
- FeistySkink 4y ago
  Which things currently work and don't with X13s?

kcb 4y ago

Snapdragon chips have pretty good Linux support. And the GPU driver is in a good state with Freedreno for desktop use. So probably a decent chance of it being functional shortly.

gjsman-1000 4y ago

I don't know why you would buy one, even if it were available, unless power-efficiency was a crucial component for a server. Can you imagine what you could get, on eBay, in a small form factor, for $600? I made off with a i3-8100T (about 3/4s as powerful, 35W TDP), with 16GB of RAM, and a 256GB SSD in an ultra-small-form-factor case for less than $150. For $600, it makes absolutely no sense against anything used. Let's say it drew 50W vs 20W total use at 10 cents per KWh. It would take 5 years to save $130, if you ran it 24/7/365. A $450 used Intel small-form-factor system would run circles around it in performance (especially after any emulation / code conversion) and you'd break even.

ohmyblock 4y ago
Would you mind sending a link to the i3-8100T box you bought?
megous 4y ago
More like 30-50c https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snippetpicker%22%3A%22EEX-PXE%20Czech%20Power%20Futures%22%7D https://www.eex.com/en/market-data/power/futures#%7B%22snipp... Anything power hungry gets really expensive quickly for home use, these days.
alias_neo 4y ago
Imagine for a second there are other countries in the world. Now let's say in Europe, just one of them was called "The United Kingdom", where after a recent (temporary) energy price cap, electricity prices rose to _only_ 36p/kWh (41 cents US at current rates), and further rise are expected, and the cap had an end, bringing us potentially to double the current uni rate, then do the maths again and see why it might be a "crucial" component for many. Running old, cheap hardware with high power usage has been impractical here and many other parts of the world for quite some time and that was before recent disastrous rises.
- AshamedCaptain 4y ago
  Problem is, we are not talking about 10 year old hardware. I find it sadly more likely that hardware from 5 years ago will consume less than hardware from a couple months ago. I myself have an x86 atom where the entire system can idle at <2W, which is no easy feat unless you start reusing phone hardware...

mackal 4y ago

Secure boot is going to be forced on.

sedatk 4y ago
which Linux can run on perfectly fine.
- vetinari 4y ago
  Depends if it will enforce Windows' CA only, or if it will trust UEFI 3rd party CA too. See also "Secured-core PCs".
  - Scharkenberg 4y ago
    Despite much FUD spread in Linux nerd circles online, Linux can run just fine on it.
    - AshamedCaptain 4y ago
      I have a Surface RT which disagrees.
      - Scharkenberg 4y ago
        In case it was not immediately obvious, this discussion is not about the Surface RT, but about the Windows Dev Kit 2023. It ships with a different Windows version, on a different Arm architecture, with different policies regarding locking down.
        AshamedCaptain 4y ago
        And? "In case it was not immediately obvious" by me specifically pointing an MS ARM device, MS's "policies" when shipping ARM devices have been much more locked down than x86. Around 50% of ARM devices released by MS so far have been completely locked down, incapable of running anything except for some version of Windows. Not just "FUD by nerd circles".

rr888 4y ago

I was going to say you should just use a raspberry pi, but you can't get those any more anyway. :)

AshamedCaptain 4y ago
And RPIs are not very good regarding power consumption, neither idle power nor efficiency.

gigel82 4y ago

I have a N6005 box from AliExpress ($180 bare, about $300 with 32Gb RAM and a nice 512Gb M.2 nvme) that runs a bunch of workloads (Proxmox VE on the metal, opnSense in a VM doing all my routing, plus 4 LXCs with 20+ Dockers for various services). Just looked over the energy report and it's averaging 0.18kWh daily (so the average power draw is 7.5W) - that's with a 3.5in SATA HDD. Better power use than my Raspberry Pi 4 with an external USB HDD! If low power consumption is your main motivator, I'd say you can do a lot better with one of those instead.