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I have never heard that expression used unironically. I feel like the idea that there are people out there saying it in earnest is itself a meme that was never

I have never heard that expression used unironically. I feel like the idea that there are people out there saying it in earnest is itself a meme that was never true.

mark_undoio 4y ago
I believe it's the origin of "bootstrapping" as a verb, in which it immediately becomes unironic technical jargon. i.e. as in getting a start-up off the ground or, when shortened further, "booting" a computer.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  I think you're correct about the origins. That said, a typically ironic idiom can still give rise to non-ironic derivative words.
  - bena 4y ago
    I don't think it's entirely non-ironic. I think the term acknowledges the inherent risk in the situation. You are attempting something statistically impossible. So many of these ventures do not pan out.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I think we are obviously quibbling, but that's okay. I think it's not about risk but the meaning is simply making something from nothing, or making much from very little. I don't think booting my computer is inherently risky or statistically impossible
      - bena 4y ago
        Sorry, I was referring to the term bootstrapping with regards to startup companies. I agree that in reference to computer startup, it's just being cheeky.
jakereps 4y ago
You’ve never heard of a bootstrapped startup? On this site?
- Bakary 4y ago
  The term itself is not sarcastic but the concept acknowledges the inherent sarcasm of it, since the chain of programs must have an initial mover
s1artibartfast 4y ago
At least according to a few internet sources, it was in initially invented as a critique with the irony intended. Over time it became idiomatic speech for initiating something difficult
jlawson 4y ago
It can and is used with both opposite meanings. The same as how "literally" means both "literally" and "figuratively", depending on the context.
- dllthomas 4y ago
  > The same as how "literally" means both "literally" and "figuratively", depending on the context. I disagree with that analysis. It's true that "literally" is often used when the modified phrase is figurative, but that's not quite the same thing is it meaning "figuratively" - were we to remove the "literally" the utterance would not be more likely to be interpreted as literal. The role it's serving is as an intensifier, and I contend that it's a fairly ordinary example of hyperbole. In the same way, when someone says "you left me waiting for days" we don't say that sometimes days means a handful of minutes depending on context, but that sometimes people exaggerate. (And I recognize that at least one sufficiently respected dictionary disagrees with me; I think they got it wrong.)

I have never heard that expression used unironically. I feel like the idea that there are people out there saying it in earnest is itself a meme that was never true.

mark_undoio 4y ago

I believe it's the origin of "bootstrapping" as a verb, in which it immediately becomes unironic technical jargon. i.e. as in getting a start-up off the ground or, when shortened further, "booting" a computer.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
I think you're correct about the origins. That said, a typically ironic idiom can still give rise to non-ironic derivative words.
- bena 4y ago
  I don't think it's entirely non-ironic. I think the term acknowledges the inherent risk in the situation. You are attempting something statistically impossible. So many of these ventures do not pan out.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    I think we are obviously quibbling, but that's okay. I think it's not about risk but the meaning is simply making something from nothing, or making much from very little. I don't think booting my computer is inherently risky or statistically impossible
    - bena 4y ago
      Sorry, I was referring to the term bootstrapping with regards to startup companies. I agree that in reference to computer startup, it's just being cheeky.

jakereps 4y ago

You’ve never heard of a bootstrapped startup? On this site?

Bakary 4y ago
The term itself is not sarcastic but the concept acknowledges the inherent sarcasm of it, since the chain of programs must have an initial mover

s1artibartfast 4y ago

At least according to a few internet sources, it was in initially invented as a critique with the irony intended. Over time it became idiomatic speech for initiating something difficult

jlawson 4y ago

It can and is used with both opposite meanings. The same as how "literally" means both "literally" and "figuratively", depending on the context.

dllthomas 4y ago
> The same as how "literally" means both "literally" and "figuratively", depending on the context. I disagree with that analysis. It's true that "literally" is often used when the modified phrase is figurative, but that's not quite the same thing is it meaning "figuratively" - were we to remove the "literally" the utterance would not be more likely to be interpreted as literal. The role it's serving is as an intensifier, and I contend that it's a fairly ordinary example of hyperbole. In the same way, when someone says "you left me waiting for days" we don't say that sometimes days means a handful of minutes depending on context, but that sometimes people exaggerate. (And I recognize that at least one sufficiently respected dictionary disagrees with me; I think they got it wrong.)