5 ms·

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. Polling in May for the Oregonian newspaper found that 53% of residents in the metro area

> In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. Polling in May for the Oregonian newspaper found that 53% of residents in the metro area felt safe downtown during the day; only 20% felt safe there at night. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-was-once-a-byword-for-tattooed-vegan-microbrewers https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-... Portland and Seattle are becoming filthy and trying to destroy themselves. I'd rather not have the same policies empowering the next age of innovation in USA. There are much better places, and much better cities than what's happening in west coast. The nice thing is that nature will find its way, there is no skirting around the truth of what's happening.

no_wizard 4y ago
I didn't say Portland or Seattle specifically. Bend, OR is perfectly pleasant, for instance. I'll also say that San Fransisco's reputation has taken many hits for similar reasons. Its not a zero sum situation. Just to reiterate, I did say Pacific Northwest, not just those two cities. There are great amazing places in both. Just outside of Portland for instance is Hilsboro, Beaverton etc.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I don't think that will change anything. Those places will succumb to the same politics. You're not looking at the root cause.
  - kodah 4y ago
    I don't think it's politics so much. The problem with developing all or most of our software on the coasts is that a few things will happen: - The coasts, which have a wildly different culture than much of the US if not the world, develop an outsized influence on and in software - It removes people from their families for no reason eg: Tech is not like Wall St in the 90's where you needed to be there to be successful - Tech is lucrative and it concentrates money in the innovation core of the US, which then prices out poorer states over time eg: How long will people in the middle of the US be able to afford the next iPhone if iPhone pricing is commensurate with the California standard of living and cost model?
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      Practically all tech is run by liberals, and large percentage are hard-left progressives. Their values are being pumped through the tech industry they've created and it is imposed through all platforms around the world. I'd like to see more diversity of ideas, not some 100 people writing Twitter algorithms in SV where they have zero clue about how the rest of the world works.
      - kodah 4y ago
        Having any kind of dominant political culture at a company probably makes things pretty miserable on the whole so I empathize. I did look into what you said about politics (as opposed to culture) and you are right that a majority of tech companies are funneling money into Democratic PACs and candidates, though, I don't think many of these folks are progressives. What I do find really concerning is that most of these candidate donations are being sent to places where these companies clearly don't operate. That seems like a loophole worth closing. - Meta: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/facebook-inc/summary?id=D000033563 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/facebook-inc/summary?id=D00... - Salesforce: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/salesforcecom/summary?id=D000037335 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/salesforcecom/summary?id=D0... - Google: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/google-inc/summary?id=D000022008 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/google-inc/summary?id=D0000... - Microsoft: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?all=2022&id=D000000115 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?all=... - Amazon: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/amazon-com/summary?all=2022&id=D000023883 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/amazon-com/summary?all=2022... - Netflix: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/netflix-inc/summary?id=D000036161 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/netflix-inc/summary?id=D000... - NVIDIA: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/nvidia-corp/summary?id=D000036303 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/nvidia-corp/summary?id=D000... - AMD: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/advanced-micro-devices/summary?id=D000023765 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/advanced-micro-devices/summ... There's others that are more middle of the road: - Intel: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intel-corp/summary?id=D000000804 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intel-corp/summary?id=D0000... - Intuit: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intuit-inc/summary?id=D000026667 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intuit-inc/summary?id=D0000... - Qualcomm: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/qualcomm-inc/summary?id=D000000794 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/qualcomm-inc/summary?id=D00...
wing-_-nuts 4y ago
On the one hand, I think it's laudable that the cities are trying to do something beyond simply incarcerating the homeless like so many red cities do. On the other, I do think they need to have a firmer hand in getting them off the streets. They need a carrot and stick approach. They need to offer temporary housing, and treatment for addiction and mental health issues. Those that refuse? Well, the stick is jail. You choose. Regardless, living in a proto-shanty town should no longer be tolerated.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I don't think it is laudable. I'd love to move to Singapore or Tokyo where none of this drug culture is perpetuated. Under the hood, this is a way to get party votes by instituting state dependency at tax payer's expense. It is all terrible politics. See our immigration policy. It is vote-making machinery.
  - wing-_-nuts 4y ago
    I guess your point of view on this really hinges on whether you think the state should help or punish homelessness. If you're really trying to do the most good for your citizens, getting them into mental health and drug treatment is massively less costly and than leaving the matter to your police and emergency departments. If you think that the role of the state is to simply punish, and any sort of larger scale intervention is nanny state big government, then yeah I can see how you would favor harsher treatment. In my personal view, I don't think that helping fosters dependence. If anything, that help can be a safety net which allows them to get back on their feet and prosper. I started out my adult life on SSI disability. I got federal grants which helped me pay for my education, and trust me when I say that the state reaped a huge return on their investment when you look at the taxes I've paid over the course of my career in comparison to their initial investment. My experience definitely colours my world view.
    - systemvoltage 4y ago
      I think the idea would be to not let homelessness happen in the first place and having strict drug laws that would severely punish people who engage in drugs. Soft-on-drug policies do not work and we've been told lies for last 30 years. The results are extremely clear. The only answer to that doesn't have to be some socialist state of affairs. Plenty of highly capitalistic societies work fine, in fact evidently far better than instituting California-style socialist state. The whole mechanism is meant to gain votes. There is no humanity here. We have the same interests, to make better and productive citizens. Legalizing marijuana and normalizing hard drugs are doing the opposite. In next 20 years, we are going to find out the disasters of legalizing marijuana from the standpoint of GDP per capita. It is going to decline as population revels in lethargy and lack of productivity.

no_wizard 4y ago

I didn't say Portland or Seattle specifically. Bend, OR is perfectly pleasant, for instance. I'll also say that San Fransisco's reputation has taken many hits for similar reasons. Its not a zero sum situation. Just to reiterate, I did say Pacific Northwest, not just those two cities. There are great amazing places in both. Just outside of Portland for instance is Hilsboro, Beaverton etc.

systemvoltage 4y ago
I don't think that will change anything. Those places will succumb to the same politics. You're not looking at the root cause.
- kodah 4y ago
  I don't think it's politics so much. The problem with developing all or most of our software on the coasts is that a few things will happen: - The coasts, which have a wildly different culture than much of the US if not the world, develop an outsized influence on and in software - It removes people from their families for no reason eg: Tech is not like Wall St in the 90's where you needed to be there to be successful - Tech is lucrative and it concentrates money in the innovation core of the US, which then prices out poorer states over time eg: How long will people in the middle of the US be able to afford the next iPhone if iPhone pricing is commensurate with the California standard of living and cost model?
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    Practically all tech is run by liberals, and large percentage are hard-left progressives. Their values are being pumped through the tech industry they've created and it is imposed through all platforms around the world. I'd like to see more diversity of ideas, not some 100 people writing Twitter algorithms in SV where they have zero clue about how the rest of the world works.
    - kodah 4y ago
      Having any kind of dominant political culture at a company probably makes things pretty miserable on the whole so I empathize. I did look into what you said about politics (as opposed to culture) and you are right that a majority of tech companies are funneling money into Democratic PACs and candidates, though, I don't think many of these folks are progressives. What I do find really concerning is that most of these candidate donations are being sent to places where these companies clearly don't operate. That seems like a loophole worth closing. - Meta: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/facebook-inc/summary?id=D000033563 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/facebook-inc/summary?id=D00... - Salesforce: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/salesforcecom/summary?id=D000037335 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/salesforcecom/summary?id=D0... - Google: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/google-inc/summary?id=D000022008 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/google-inc/summary?id=D0000... - Microsoft: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?all=2022&id=D000000115 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/summary?all=... - Amazon: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/amazon-com/summary?all=2022&id=D000023883 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/amazon-com/summary?all=2022... - Netflix: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/netflix-inc/summary?id=D000036161 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/netflix-inc/summary?id=D000... - NVIDIA: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/nvidia-corp/summary?id=D000036303 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/nvidia-corp/summary?id=D000... - AMD: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/advanced-micro-devices/summary?id=D000023765 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/advanced-micro-devices/summ... There's others that are more middle of the road: - Intel: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intel-corp/summary?id=D000000804 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intel-corp/summary?id=D0000... - Intuit: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intuit-inc/summary?id=D000026667 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/intuit-inc/summary?id=D0000... - Qualcomm: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/qualcomm-inc/summary?id=D000000794 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/qualcomm-inc/summary?id=D00...

wing-_-nuts 4y ago

On the one hand, I think it's laudable that the cities are trying to do something beyond simply incarcerating the homeless like so many red cities do. On the other, I do think they need to have a firmer hand in getting them off the streets. They need a carrot and stick approach. They need to offer temporary housing, and treatment for addiction and mental health issues. Those that refuse? Well, the stick is jail. You choose. Regardless, living in a proto-shanty town should no longer be tolerated.

systemvoltage 4y ago
I don't think it is laudable. I'd love to move to Singapore or Tokyo where none of this drug culture is perpetuated. Under the hood, this is a way to get party votes by instituting state dependency at tax payer's expense. It is all terrible politics. See our immigration policy. It is vote-making machinery.
- wing-_-nuts 4y ago
  I guess your point of view on this really hinges on whether you think the state should help or punish homelessness. If you're really trying to do the most good for your citizens, getting them into mental health and drug treatment is massively less costly and than leaving the matter to your police and emergency departments. If you think that the role of the state is to simply punish, and any sort of larger scale intervention is nanny state big government, then yeah I can see how you would favor harsher treatment. In my personal view, I don't think that helping fosters dependence. If anything, that help can be a safety net which allows them to get back on their feet and prosper. I started out my adult life on SSI disability. I got federal grants which helped me pay for my education, and trust me when I say that the state reaped a huge return on their investment when you look at the taxes I've paid over the course of my career in comparison to their initial investment. My experience definitely colours my world view.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    I think the idea would be to not let homelessness happen in the first place and having strict drug laws that would severely punish people who engage in drugs. Soft-on-drug policies do not work and we've been told lies for last 30 years. The results are extremely clear. The only answer to that doesn't have to be some socialist state of affairs. Plenty of highly capitalistic societies work fine, in fact evidently far better than instituting California-style socialist state. The whole mechanism is meant to gain votes. There is no humanity here. We have the same interests, to make better and productive citizens. Legalizing marijuana and normalizing hard drugs are doing the opposite. In next 20 years, we are going to find out the disasters of legalizing marijuana from the standpoint of GDP per capita. It is going to decline as population revels in lethargy and lack of productivity.