4 ms·

Blockchain Solutionism

14 points by mfbx9da4 4y ago

colesantiago 4y ago
I still even today have never seen any legitimate use case for crypto at all. it does seem it is a solution looking for a problem.
- constantcrying 4y ago
  Crypto currencies solve a legitimately interesting problem, which makes it a fascinating technology. My professor called it the "nuclear science" of computer science. What is striking to me is that most people do not even understand what cryptocurrencies are. I sampled some of my (not so technical) friends about how anonymous bitcoin/etherium are, none of them knew that it essentially publishes the bank records of everyone as a fundamental part of how it works... A blockchain essentially is just a database. And so many times I have heard people proposing a "novel technology" where they just replaced a regular database with a blockchain, e.g. "why not track logistics through a blockchain". The trouble is that in every case using the blockchain made things worse. In what application do you have to defend against mallicious attack and can not rely on a central authority? In how many cases do you even want to not have a central authority? Money is basically the only semi-plausible use cases where just replacing the blockchain with a normal database doesn't improve the system.
- mattdesl 4y ago
  - preventing double spend in a distributed ledger - creating a secure timestamped append only log of signed messages - apps like multisig wallets, privacy preserving rollups, cross-site attestations - creating a global namespace registry for social networks[1] - building other things on top of these primitives, like disintermediated collectibles for games, art, web communities.. [1] https://www.varunsrinivasan.com/2022/01/11/sufficient-decentralization-for-social-networks https://www.varunsrinivasan.com/2022/01/11/sufficient-decent...
  - dogweather 4y ago
    Those are definitely blockchain features or benefits. But crypto(currency)? I'm not sure.
    - mattdesl 4y ago
      A crypto currency like ETH acts as the gas that secures the network and all the above use cases. A program (smart contract) can itself also become a token and currency: USDC and CryptoPunk NFTs are just different software programs running on the ledger that maintain their own state of user balances.
  - exelib 4y ago
    Why do you need a blockchain for that? Some of points are pretty artificial.
    - mattdesl 4y ago
      It always comes down to trust models, (de)centralization, and whether it’s permissioned or permissionless. For example multisigs, without crypto, require a trusted and centralized custodian, and if you are lucky you might get a permissioned API that exposes a few end points that were dreamed up by engineers at Stripe or some new tech-startup digital bank.
      - exelib 4y ago
        I'm still not sure I understand you. And you know, decentralization doesn't mean that there is no regulation.
        mattdesl 4y ago
        Of course, using a crypto multisig doesn’t give you a pass on the law. The closest example might be to point to TCP/IP which makes up the web and is (pretty) decentralized. Companies and even monopolies compete on top of this protocol but no single company wholly owns it. Although, ensuring decentralization tends to be a much more strongly considered goal in blockchains than what we’ve seen on the internet. It’s a long read but “The Crypto Story” does a pretty great job at distilling some of the motivations: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2022-the-crypto-story/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2022-the-crypto-story/
- dogweather 4y ago
  I think I found an actual legitimate, real use of crypto, albeit a small one: A way for an adult to give a gift to a minor. Here in the US it used to be possible to buy "savings bonds" printed on paper. These were very common for gift giving on special life occasions: they matured (were usable) after e.g. 7 years. But now in the modern era, I couldn't find those or a way to create a long-term savings account for a minor. But I was able to create a crypto wallet with a small portfolio of Bitcoin and Eth. It was easy to give to her and her family: just tell them the secret 12 words and explain how to install a crypto wallet.
Comevius 4y ago
I'm so bothered by the decadence of the tech industry adopting something so trivially useless, just because it can used to exploit people, either by appealing to their greed or need to be a part of something. Meanwhile India revolutionized digital payment without any fanfare, by making something that can be used by billions of people today. With zero hype. It just works, and it's boosting the country's GDP by at least 1%. Meanwhile meanwhile the ghouls of Silicon Valley are busy promoting inefficient solutions that don't work at all. It's like those hundreds of thousands of empty houses in China. It's all a ghost town, but we can't stop hearing how great it is. Can barely buy a pizza with cryptocurrencies, but it's the future. We reinvented music with Web3, but we have 600 users, because our tone-deaf service is unintelligible to normal people, and we are too far up on our asses to make something people want. People don't want Web3, they want to eat, watch TV, work to get paid, talk to each other, sleep, marry and fuck. Your service should address pain points in these normal activities, not make up new problems. Oh gosh darn it, the site I use to Netflix and chill with my girlfriend is not decentramalized, take all my money, I never knew it needed to be decentrifugalized while it's playing in the background. Said no one ever.
- dietmtnview 4y ago
  Americans fundamentally do not believe that the government can be used to make your life convenient. Average people believe technologies like the Internet and GPS were invented by private industry rather than government.
- scottiebarnes 4y ago
  Your mistake is thinking blockchains are a service. They aren't, they're protocols for building things on, like tcp/ip. It happens to be that a decentralized public ledger is the highest value use for it at the moment. What you're also missing out is on how the current monetary system and monetary base work, and why central banking is problematic. You've lost probably more than 10% of your own buying power over the last year at no fault of your own, and you never questioned it. The housing market is now impossible for average people to enter (especially in cities), as easy, low interest money has inflated home values and the house price to income ratio has gone steadily up and to the right. These are signals of broken money; this is what blockchains are looking to solve.

14 points by mfbx9da4 4y ago

I still even today have never seen any legitimate use case for crypto at all. it does seem it is a solution looking for a problem.

constantcrying 4y ago
Crypto currencies solve a legitimately interesting problem, which makes it a fascinating technology. My professor called it the "nuclear science" of computer science. What is striking to me is that most people do not even understand what cryptocurrencies are. I sampled some of my (not so technical) friends about how anonymous bitcoin/etherium are, none of them knew that it essentially publishes the bank records of everyone as a fundamental part of how it works... A blockchain essentially is just a database. And so many times I have heard people proposing a "novel technology" where they just replaced a regular database with a blockchain, e.g. "why not track logistics through a blockchain". The trouble is that in every case using the blockchain made things worse. In what application do you have to defend against mallicious attack and can not rely on a central authority? In how many cases do you even want to not have a central authority? Money is basically the only semi-plausible use cases where just replacing the blockchain with a normal database doesn't improve the system.
mattdesl 4y ago
- preventing double spend in a distributed ledger - creating a secure timestamped append only log of signed messages - apps like multisig wallets, privacy preserving rollups, cross-site attestations - creating a global namespace registry for social networks[1] - building other things on top of these primitives, like disintermediated collectibles for games, art, web communities.. [1] https://www.varunsrinivasan.com/2022/01/11/sufficient-decentralization-for-social-networks https://www.varunsrinivasan.com/2022/01/11/sufficient-decent...
- dogweather 4y ago
  Those are definitely blockchain features or benefits. But crypto(currency)? I'm not sure.
  - mattdesl 4y ago
    A crypto currency like ETH acts as the gas that secures the network and all the above use cases. A program (smart contract) can itself also become a token and currency: USDC and CryptoPunk NFTs are just different software programs running on the ledger that maintain their own state of user balances.
- exelib 4y ago
  Why do you need a blockchain for that? Some of points are pretty artificial.
  - mattdesl 4y ago
    It always comes down to trust models, (de)centralization, and whether it’s permissioned or permissionless. For example multisigs, without crypto, require a trusted and centralized custodian, and if you are lucky you might get a permissioned API that exposes a few end points that were dreamed up by engineers at Stripe or some new tech-startup digital bank.
    - exelib 4y ago
      I'm still not sure I understand you. And you know, decentralization doesn't mean that there is no regulation.
      - mattdesl 4y ago
        Of course, using a crypto multisig doesn’t give you a pass on the law. The closest example might be to point to TCP/IP which makes up the web and is (pretty) decentralized. Companies and even monopolies compete on top of this protocol but no single company wholly owns it. Although, ensuring decentralization tends to be a much more strongly considered goal in blockchains than what we’ve seen on the internet. It’s a long read but “The Crypto Story” does a pretty great job at distilling some of the motivations: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2022-the-crypto-story/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2022-the-crypto-story/
dogweather 4y ago
I think I found an actual legitimate, real use of crypto, albeit a small one: A way for an adult to give a gift to a minor. Here in the US it used to be possible to buy "savings bonds" printed on paper. These were very common for gift giving on special life occasions: they matured (were usable) after e.g. 7 years. But now in the modern era, I couldn't find those or a way to create a long-term savings account for a minor. But I was able to create a crypto wallet with a small portfolio of Bitcoin and Eth. It was easy to give to her and her family: just tell them the secret 12 words and explain how to install a crypto wallet.

Comevius 4y ago

I'm so bothered by the decadence of the tech industry adopting something so trivially useless, just because it can used to exploit people, either by appealing to their greed or need to be a part of something. Meanwhile India revolutionized digital payment without any fanfare, by making something that can be used by billions of people today. With zero hype. It just works, and it's boosting the country's GDP by at least 1%. Meanwhile meanwhile the ghouls of Silicon Valley are busy promoting inefficient solutions that don't work at all. It's like those hundreds of thousands of empty houses in China. It's all a ghost town, but we can't stop hearing how great it is. Can barely buy a pizza with cryptocurrencies, but it's the future. We reinvented music with Web3, but we have 600 users, because our tone-deaf service is unintelligible to normal people, and we are too far up on our asses to make something people want. People don't want Web3, they want to eat, watch TV, work to get paid, talk to each other, sleep, marry and fuck. Your service should address pain points in these normal activities, not make up new problems. Oh gosh darn it, the site I use to Netflix and chill with my girlfriend is not decentramalized, take all my money, I never knew it needed to be decentrifugalized while it's playing in the background. Said no one ever.

dietmtnview 4y ago
Americans fundamentally do not believe that the government can be used to make your life convenient. Average people believe technologies like the Internet and GPS were invented by private industry rather than government.
scottiebarnes 4y ago
Your mistake is thinking blockchains are a service. They aren't, they're protocols for building things on, like tcp/ip. It happens to be that a decentralized public ledger is the highest value use for it at the moment. What you're also missing out is on how the current monetary system and monetary base work, and why central banking is problematic. You've lost probably more than 10% of your own buying power over the last year at no fault of your own, and you never questioned it. The housing market is now impossible for average people to enter (especially in cities), as easy, low interest money has inflated home values and the house price to income ratio has gone steadily up and to the right. These are signals of broken money; this is what blockchains are looking to solve.