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The dysfunction is concentrated in the city of San Francisco. The wider Bay Area is not as bad. Also, attributing the whole market cap or revenue of a multinati

The dysfunction is concentrated in the city of San Francisco. The wider Bay Area is not as bad. Also, attributing the whole market cap or revenue of a multinational corporation to its headquarters is not really the best way to measure things. Also, this is a lagging indicator. A lot of this growth is occurring in companies that were founded before the worst dysfunction occurred. It doesn't mean dysfunction is not here now and won't affect future growth.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago
> The wider Bay Area is not as bad Lived in SF for 9 years (2012-2020), and visited many places in the whole bay area. I don't know what you're talking about, really. Bullet train? Slower than the slowest train in Italy. Homeless people? Try Mountain View, try San Jose. Only Marin County is a bit spared by it. Dirty? Expensive? Pretty much everywhere. Few exceptions, like downtown Palo Alto, around the Apple store. Really, you can't say it is "not that bad", unless you're forgetting there's the rest of the (civilized) world to compare it to.
988747 4y ago
Yes, one could argue, that the state of Delaware should be the world's 4th economy, since most of the Bay Area companies are registered there (alongside many others).
no_wizard 4y ago
Which I point out as follows It'll be interesting to see what it is like 12-18 months from now, because the headwinds in tech are just starting to roll in full force before these statistics were finalized. California may see a bit of a down round next year. To your other point, regarding headquarters not being a good measure. I think the tech employee driven inflation of housing prices in the Bay area and surrounding metros (sometimes as far out as Sacramento. For non natives, that's ~2 hours away by drive, usually a more consistent 1 hr 30 minutes by train in my experience. Some corporate buses even go out to these farther out metros to pick up employees) is strong evidence that they're still hiring pretty locally, though with remote work in stronger force than ever, it is changing a bit, but those effects are yet to be determined in the common case, but it will upend some of this, 100% EDIT: I 100% agree about dysfunction in San Fransisco proper. Its a thing.
systemvoltage 4y ago
Yes, there is also a momentum of last 30 years of innovation and startup culture. That’s arguably ending and dwindling down. I hope people in Texas and Florida, maybe the Georgia, Colorado and Carolina make a stiff competition with California. It’s good for CA and good for United States.
- no_wizard 4y ago
  I'd rather just see it pour into the Pacific Northwest (PNW). This is driven by personal reasons (hello from Oregon!) but also I think its an easier outgrowth for the region since a plane to Silicon Valley is much faster to arrive (its nonstop 1 hr 30 minutes from most major airports in the PNW). I also have observed that Oregon and Washington share cultural similarities to California that make it easier to integrate the ecosystems. Plus, same time zone, for the most part.
  - systemvoltage 4y ago
    > In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. Polling in May for the Oregonian newspaper found that 53% of residents in the metro area felt safe downtown during the day; only 20% felt safe there at night. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-was-once-a-byword-for-tattooed-vegan-microbrewers https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-... Portland and Seattle are becoming filthy and trying to destroy themselves. I'd rather not have the same policies empowering the next age of innovation in USA. There are much better places, and much better cities than what's happening in west coast. The nice thing is that nature will find its way, there is no skirting around the truth of what's happening.
    - no_wizard 4y ago
      I didn't say Portland or Seattle specifically. Bend, OR is perfectly pleasant, for instance. I'll also say that San Fransisco's reputation has taken many hits for similar reasons. Its not a zero sum situation. Just to reiterate, I did say Pacific Northwest, not just those two cities. There are great amazing places in both. Just outside of Portland for instance is Hilsboro, Beaverton etc.

simonebrunozzi 4y ago

> The wider Bay Area is not as bad Lived in SF for 9 years (2012-2020), and visited many places in the whole bay area. I don't know what you're talking about, really. Bullet train? Slower than the slowest train in Italy. Homeless people? Try Mountain View, try San Jose. Only Marin County is a bit spared by it. Dirty? Expensive? Pretty much everywhere. Few exceptions, like downtown Palo Alto, around the Apple store. Really, you can't say it is "not that bad", unless you're forgetting there's the rest of the (civilized) world to compare it to.

988747 4y ago

Yes, one could argue, that the state of Delaware should be the world's 4th economy, since most of the Bay Area companies are registered there (alongside many others).

no_wizard 4y ago

Which I point out as follows It'll be interesting to see what it is like 12-18 months from now, because the headwinds in tech are just starting to roll in full force before these statistics were finalized. California may see a bit of a down round next year. To your other point, regarding headquarters not being a good measure. I think the tech employee driven inflation of housing prices in the Bay area and surrounding metros (sometimes as far out as Sacramento. For non natives, that's ~2 hours away by drive, usually a more consistent 1 hr 30 minutes by train in my experience. Some corporate buses even go out to these farther out metros to pick up employees) is strong evidence that they're still hiring pretty locally, though with remote work in stronger force than ever, it is changing a bit, but those effects are yet to be determined in the common case, but it will upend some of this, 100% EDIT: I 100% agree about dysfunction in San Fransisco proper. Its a thing.

systemvoltage 4y ago

Yes, there is also a momentum of last 30 years of innovation and startup culture. That’s arguably ending and dwindling down. I hope people in Texas and Florida, maybe the Georgia, Colorado and Carolina make a stiff competition with California. It’s good for CA and good for United States.

no_wizard 4y ago
I'd rather just see it pour into the Pacific Northwest (PNW). This is driven by personal reasons (hello from Oregon!) but also I think its an easier outgrowth for the region since a plane to Silicon Valley is much faster to arrive (its nonstop 1 hr 30 minutes from most major airports in the PNW). I also have observed that Oregon and Washington share cultural similarities to California that make it easier to integrate the ecosystems. Plus, same time zone, for the most part.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  > In 2017 Portland ranked third. Now it has dropped to 66th out of 80. Polling in May for the Oregonian newspaper found that 53% of residents in the metro area felt safe downtown during the day; only 20% felt safe there at night. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-was-once-a-byword-for-tattooed-vegan-microbrewers https://www.economist.com/united-states/2021/06/12/portland-... Portland and Seattle are becoming filthy and trying to destroy themselves. I'd rather not have the same policies empowering the next age of innovation in USA. There are much better places, and much better cities than what's happening in west coast. The nice thing is that nature will find its way, there is no skirting around the truth of what's happening.
  - no_wizard 4y ago
    I didn't say Portland or Seattle specifically. Bend, OR is perfectly pleasant, for instance. I'll also say that San Fransisco's reputation has taken many hits for similar reasons. Its not a zero sum situation. Just to reiterate, I did say Pacific Northwest, not just those two cities. There are great amazing places in both. Just outside of Portland for instance is Hilsboro, Beaverton etc.