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How does a "a very good programmer".. "spent over five years looking for a job after graduation" happen? A lot of companies are hiring right now, and for fres

by theamk 4y ago

How does a "a very good programmer".. "spent over five years looking for a job after graduation" happen? A lot of companies are hiring right now, and for fresh-out-of-college grads, the requirements are pretty basic and basically cover the schoolwork. And there are (paid) internship opportunities too, whose internal goals are to convert the person from intern to full-time, and the requirements for interns are even lower.

ejb999 4y ago
>>How does a "a very good programmer".. "spent over five years looking for a job after graduation" happen? One of those two things is necessarily not true, not in this market (i.e. for the past 5 years).
- sanxiyn 4y ago
  If your definition of a good programmer includes being good at job hunting, maybe. Otherwise no.
glasss 4y ago
I know lots of good programmers that had no connections, couldn't do internships for personal reasons, and aren't great at interviewing.
Spoom 4y ago
> A lot of companies are hiring right now, and for fresh-out-of-college grads, the requirements are pretty basic and basically cover the schoolwork. And as a result, they receive hundreds or thousands of nigh-identical applicants. If you don't stand out somehow, you don't get hired. Check r/cscareerquestions, you'll see many examples. The entry level job market is much tougher than the experienced market.
- shagie 4y ago
  The flip side of that is that most of r/cscareerquestions is fixated on big tech jobs that have starting pay much better than the median for the area (or for that matter, industry) that are 100% remote for a junior position. Yes, if you apply to Google you will be one of the countless resumes that applies and need something to stand out (see also the two types of college students in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318407 ). However, there are lots of other companies that are hiring that get a much smaller set of resumes. The entry level job market for applying to a well known company that pays much better than average is much tougher than most people realize. And yet less well known companies can post https://exactsciences.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Exact_Sciences/job/US---Remote/Software-Engineer---All-Experience-Levels-Considered_R22-823 https://exactsciences.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Exact_Scie... or https://careers.garmin.com/careers-home/jobs/9307?lang=en-us https://careers.garmin.com/careers-home/jobs/9307?lang=en-us (there are lots more there, just pulled the first one) and only get a handful of applicants.
sanxiyn 4y ago
It happens all the time. I was incredulous too, but companies are really bad at hiring. For example, many companies may not even interview a very good programmer if they didn't major in computer science. I am not sure why.
- shagie 4y ago
  Because they have enough applicants, some of who are qualified, that have a college degree that adding the filter of a college degree results in a reduction of the amount of work that HR or a manager needs to do to consider the resumes and has a higher percentage of qualified applicants in the pool of degree holders.
- theamk 4y ago
  One of the job postings actually spells it out: they want "experience" and coursework counts for it > Bachelor’s degree in Computer Sciences, Engineering, Sciences; or High School Degree/General Education Diploma and 4 years of relevant experience in lieu of Bachelor’s degree. > 1+ years of work experience or coursework in design capabilities using modern technologies. We can argue if modern CS curriculum is really equivalent to work experience, especially with reduction in number of large projects, but at least the companies are pretty upfront about what they want and why.

by theamk 4y ago

ejb999 4y ago

>>How does a "a very good programmer".. "spent over five years looking for a job after graduation" happen? One of those two things is necessarily not true, not in this market (i.e. for the past 5 years).

sanxiyn 4y ago
If your definition of a good programmer includes being good at job hunting, maybe. Otherwise no.

glasss 4y ago

I know lots of good programmers that had no connections, couldn't do internships for personal reasons, and aren't great at interviewing.

Spoom 4y ago

> A lot of companies are hiring right now, and for fresh-out-of-college grads, the requirements are pretty basic and basically cover the schoolwork. And as a result, they receive hundreds or thousands of nigh-identical applicants. If you don't stand out somehow, you don't get hired. Check r/cscareerquestions, you'll see many examples. The entry level job market is much tougher than the experienced market.

shagie 4y ago
The flip side of that is that most of r/cscareerquestions is fixated on big tech jobs that have starting pay much better than the median for the area (or for that matter, industry) that are 100% remote for a junior position. Yes, if you apply to Google you will be one of the countless resumes that applies and need something to stand out (see also the two types of college students in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318407 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33318407 ). However, there are lots of other companies that are hiring that get a much smaller set of resumes. The entry level job market for applying to a well known company that pays much better than average is much tougher than most people realize. And yet less well known companies can post https://exactsciences.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Exact_Sciences/job/US---Remote/Software-Engineer---All-Experience-Levels-Considered_R22-823 https://exactsciences.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/Exact_Scie... or https://careers.garmin.com/careers-home/jobs/9307?lang=en-us https://careers.garmin.com/careers-home/jobs/9307?lang=en-us (there are lots more there, just pulled the first one) and only get a handful of applicants.

sanxiyn 4y ago

It happens all the time. I was incredulous too, but companies are really bad at hiring. For example, many companies may not even interview a very good programmer if they didn't major in computer science. I am not sure why.

shagie 4y ago
Because they have enough applicants, some of who are qualified, that have a college degree that adding the filter of a college degree results in a reduction of the amount of work that HR or a manager needs to do to consider the resumes and has a higher percentage of qualified applicants in the pool of degree holders.
theamk 4y ago
One of the job postings actually spells it out: they want "experience" and coursework counts for it > Bachelor’s degree in Computer Sciences, Engineering, Sciences; or High School Degree/General Education Diploma and 4 years of relevant experience in lieu of Bachelor’s degree. > 1+ years of work experience or coursework in design capabilities using modern technologies. We can argue if modern CS curriculum is really equivalent to work experience, especially with reduction in number of large projects, but at least the companies are pretty upfront about what they want and why.