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I really do believe that there have been millions of generators and solar panels sold, just because there "might" be a power outtage. Like for instance here in

I really do believe that there have been millions of generators and solar panels sold, just because there "might" be a power outtage. Like for instance here in Germany, they warned us of sad winters and blackouts all around and as it stands right now, there is nothing going to happen to either power nor gas supply. So I think these have been bought under fomo and will most likely not be needed and sold again. Solar in Ireland is going to be difficult, but wind is not. Its just a bigger investment that takes more space for something that "might" happen.

pjc50 4y ago
If you've bought the panels, presumably you'd use them?
- mwint 4y ago
  Often, utilities and laws make it irrationally difficult to use solar and grid at the same time. You'd need a grid tie system (if permitted), or loads that you can run off solar alone (not connected to your home wiring). I can totally see the rationale for buying panels, and an inverter, such that I could feed into my home if the power went out - but not going through the mess of permitting, just planning to hook it up if the apocalypse does occur.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Assuming you want to use solar and grid at the same time, how would you avoid using a grid tie system? You definitely need to match phase with the grid, or bad things will happen, and you definitely need it to not back-feed current into downed lines. Is there some other expensive thing the grid tie is doing, or are you proposing some other setup?
    - Schroedingersat 4y ago
      You could have both grid and solar feed into something less regulated with no back feed. A stupid but easy to think of example would be Solar-battery + inverter for your load with a DC grid powered charger when batteries are low.
    - mwint 4y ago
      You’re correct - I’m addressing why someone would buy a solar setup and not use it. You’d need a grid tie to use it, and often the permits for those are slow to get. But if the power goes out for an extended period in a real apocalypse scenario, and I’m getting cold, guess what: I’m turning on my solar and disconnecting the grid entirely.
    - robocat 4y ago
      > Is there some other expensive thing the grid tie is doing Legal permits and network regulations are the expense I would guess. Probably nothing particularly technically difficult.
joshxyz 4y ago
And fuel to power them, and oil for preventive maintenance.
algoatecorn 4y ago
>Like for instance here in Germany, they warned us of sad winters and blackouts all around and as it stands right now, there is nothing going to happen to either power nor gas supply. Can you elaborate on this? As an American I'm curious what your perspective is as someone who is currently living in Germany. What we're hearing (at least from commodity analysts) is that there is will be major energy supply shortages throughout Europe, particularly Germany. Not arguing one way or another - just trying to hear more perspectives.
- V__ 4y ago
  Other German here. I can't speak for every country in Europe, but right now it looks like energy supply shortages in Germany are unlikely. Gas storages as of today are 97%, and Europe as a whole is at 93% [1]. This is also the reason the gas price shoot up this much, because everyone was filling up the storages as fast as possible, no matter the cost. But due to the full storages gas prices are falling. Spain is even turning away LNG tankers because there is no more capacity [2]. Without any gas supplies, Germanies storages will last 2 months. This is incredibly unlikely to happen. There are LNG terminals being build right now and one is about to go online [3]. Besides those, there is still gas coming in from the Netherlands and other parts of Europe. When it comes to electricity, there may be some trouble ahead if France doesn't get its nuclear plants online in the next months [4]. Another factor which helps right now, is that it's still kinda warm for this time of year and this winter is predicted to be on the warmer side. The last point to make is that there are laws which mandate the shutdown of gas- and electricity-heavy industries to prevent any residental shortages. In an emergency nearly 50% of electricity and 50% of gas could be saved. [1] https://agsi.gie.eu/?s=08 https://agsi.gie.eu/?s=08 [2] https://www.dw.com/en/lng-tankers-stuck-off-spanish-coast-amid-gas-crunch-in-europe/a-63512245 https://www.dw.com/en/lng-tankers-stuck-off-spanish-coast-am... [3] https://www.uniper.energy/projects-and-cases/lng-terminal-wilhelmshaven https://www.uniper.energy/projects-and-cases/lng-terminal-wi... [4] https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/04/frances-edf-plans-to-restart-nations-entire-nuclear-fleet-by-early-next-year https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/04/frances-edf-plans-to-res...
  - algoatecorn 4y ago

pjc50 4y ago

If you've bought the panels, presumably you'd use them?

mwint 4y ago
Often, utilities and laws make it irrationally difficult to use solar and grid at the same time. You'd need a grid tie system (if permitted), or loads that you can run off solar alone (not connected to your home wiring). I can totally see the rationale for buying panels, and an inverter, such that I could feed into my home if the power went out - but not going through the mess of permitting, just planning to hook it up if the apocalypse does occur.
- hedora 4y ago
  Assuming you want to use solar and grid at the same time, how would you avoid using a grid tie system? You definitely need to match phase with the grid, or bad things will happen, and you definitely need it to not back-feed current into downed lines. Is there some other expensive thing the grid tie is doing, or are you proposing some other setup?
  - Schroedingersat 4y ago
    You could have both grid and solar feed into something less regulated with no back feed. A stupid but easy to think of example would be Solar-battery + inverter for your load with a DC grid powered charger when batteries are low.
  - mwint 4y ago
    You’re correct - I’m addressing why someone would buy a solar setup and not use it. You’d need a grid tie to use it, and often the permits for those are slow to get. But if the power goes out for an extended period in a real apocalypse scenario, and I’m getting cold, guess what: I’m turning on my solar and disconnecting the grid entirely.
  - robocat 4y ago
    > Is there some other expensive thing the grid tie is doing Legal permits and network regulations are the expense I would guess. Probably nothing particularly technically difficult.

joshxyz 4y ago

And fuel to power them, and oil for preventive maintenance.

algoatecorn 4y ago

>Like for instance here in Germany, they warned us of sad winters and blackouts all around and as it stands right now, there is nothing going to happen to either power nor gas supply. Can you elaborate on this? As an American I'm curious what your perspective is as someone who is currently living in Germany. What we're hearing (at least from commodity analysts) is that there is will be major energy supply shortages throughout Europe, particularly Germany. Not arguing one way or another - just trying to hear more perspectives.

V__ 4y ago
Other German here. I can't speak for every country in Europe, but right now it looks like energy supply shortages in Germany are unlikely. Gas storages as of today are 97%, and Europe as a whole is at 93% [1]. This is also the reason the gas price shoot up this much, because everyone was filling up the storages as fast as possible, no matter the cost. But due to the full storages gas prices are falling. Spain is even turning away LNG tankers because there is no more capacity [2]. Without any gas supplies, Germanies storages will last 2 months. This is incredibly unlikely to happen. There are LNG terminals being build right now and one is about to go online [3]. Besides those, there is still gas coming in from the Netherlands and other parts of Europe. When it comes to electricity, there may be some trouble ahead if France doesn't get its nuclear plants online in the next months [4]. Another factor which helps right now, is that it's still kinda warm for this time of year and this winter is predicted to be on the warmer side. The last point to make is that there are laws which mandate the shutdown of gas- and electricity-heavy industries to prevent any residental shortages. In an emergency nearly 50% of electricity and 50% of gas could be saved. [1] https://agsi.gie.eu/?s=08 https://agsi.gie.eu/?s=08 [2] https://www.dw.com/en/lng-tankers-stuck-off-spanish-coast-amid-gas-crunch-in-europe/a-63512245 https://www.dw.com/en/lng-tankers-stuck-off-spanish-coast-am... [3] https://www.uniper.energy/projects-and-cases/lng-terminal-wilhelmshaven https://www.uniper.energy/projects-and-cases/lng-terminal-wi... [4] https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/04/frances-edf-plans-to-restart-nations-entire-nuclear-fleet-by-early-next-year https://www.euronews.com/2022/09/04/frances-edf-plans-to-res...
- algoatecorn 4y ago