10 ms·

"Australian Exceptionalism": best performing and fairest developed nation

106 points by jdub 15y ago

jorkos 15y ago
Selling dirt to China really skews these numbers....and as a Canadian I should know.
- tankenmate 15y ago
  Hardly; agriculture and mining _combined_ make up 10% of GDP. 68% of Australian GDP comes from the services sector. These figures courtesy of the Australian Bureau of Statistics in the year 2006. Agriculture and mining do make up 57% of exports however, thus keeping the trade balance on keel.
  - brc 15y ago
    2006 and 2011 might be massively different in terms of GDP makeup. You also forget to mention that much of those services are underpinned by the money generated from the export industries.
  - nl 15y ago
    The size of GDP mostly correlates to population (assuming stable living conditions). "How well" and economy is going correlates well to exports. Agriculture and mining do make up 57% of exports however, thus keeping the trade balance on keel. Mining makes up 47% of the total - agriculture as a whole is smaller than Gold alone, and roughly the size of our crude petroleum exports (I never realize that!). See http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade/trade-at-a-glance-2011.html http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade/trade-at-a-glance-...
- zmmmmm 15y ago
  Indeed - I think many Australians fail to recognize their good fortune because by and large they had nothing to do with it. It just happened in a far off part of the country without them noticing.
  - femto 15y ago
    And it's nothing new. In 1964 Donald Horne penned a book "The Lucky Country", which caused many Australians to start referring to Australia as "The Lucky Country". The bit they miss is that the full quote was. "Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck." Ouch! It's a bit harsh, in that Australia does punch above its weight in some areas (eg. excellent radio astronomy program and some very good medicos). It's spot on for other areas though, such as the majority of business and political leadership. One gets the feeling that the things that succeed in Australia do so in spite of the leadership, not because of it.
    - grecy 15y ago
      (I'm Australian) It's interesting to note, if you say "The Luck Country" to Aussies under about 25 years old, they have no idea what you are talking about.
    - brc 15y ago
      Exactly! One of the less-discussed effects of 'Dutch Disease' is that it creates a political class who are determined to capture the inflow of new money and distribute it for their own needs. The thing I get frustrated about is that people continuously say 'look we're better than Japan or the USA or the UK'. But what I want to say is 'well, why aren't we the richest country on the planet with the highest standard of living for all?'. Comparing yourself to mediocre performance just leads to reversion to the mean because people -as you say - become second rate and share in the luck, convincing themselves it was their wise stewardship that made the luck happen.
    - vacri 15y ago
      when you say 'political leadership', are you including things like the world-first legislated 8-hour work day? The world-second women's vote? Or more recent world firsts, like the mining profits tax? Australia has it's downsides (like the WAP that only ceased half a century ago) but it's a pretty progressive nation, if you bother to compare it to other nations rather than utopia. Where are the other powerful, inspiring leaders? There's nothing unusually bad about ours.
  - 15y ago
tankenmate 15y ago
One of the wisest moves I have seen by a bunch of politicians in the world was the introduction of the superannuation system in Australia. I have lived in a number of countries around the world and I don't understand why more countries don't adopt a similar system.
- te_chris 15y ago
  We did it here in New Zealand as well in the 1970's, one of our previous Prime Minister's portrayed it as "reds under the bed" etc etc, destroyed it, and now we're paying for it dearly. Stupidest move in NZ's economic history as far as I'm concerned. According to current studies, we would've had one of the largest soverign wealth funds in the world if we'd kept up with it since its inception. Policy blunders like this are par for the course here though, Normally committed by the right-wing/conservative (as in economically, not religious, we don't really give them much space in our national discourse) National Party.
  - nl 15y ago
    Superannuation (at least in Australia, generally speaking) is privately run. You don't end up with a soverign wealth fund. (Although you do end up with a large amount of capital looking for places to be invested)
- brc 15y ago
  There are many good policy ideas implemented in Australia. The superannuation system is pretty good - it has problems but overall is good for the country. The healthcare system also manages to tread a fine line between having a public safety net (ie, everyone gets free treatment) but also encouraging private health insurance and private healthcare for those who can afford it. There are many sensible insurance regulations around, such as compulsory third-party-personal insurance that comes attached to vehicle registration, so that if you're a licensed driver driving a licensed vehicle, even if you run over 50 pedestrians you're covered for their losses and they are all covered for medical insurance, compensation payouts and rehabilitation. The dividend tax system is also quite good, in that, if you're an Australian taxpayer, you can claim a tax rebate on the dividends you receive from revenue arising from an Australian company. So an Australian company pays tax on it's earnings, then pays some of those earnings out to taxpayers via dividends. The dividend recipient can then claim what is called a 'franking credit' on that dividend which is offset against their own earnings. It sounds complicated but what it essentially means is that Australian corporate income is only taxed once - you don't get double taxed for paying out dividends. As a result, Australian companies pay healthy dividends, which underpins investment in Australian companies by individuals requiring income from shareholdings. Of course, there are some dumb policies as well, but in general things work pretty well, and, as the article says, quality of life and income spread at ranked very highly in world terms.
brc 15y ago
Some sleight of hand there- they try and play down the government debt because it's low, but omitted the fact that 4 years ago it used to be zero and now is growing faster than Ireland did before it went bust. This is happening because of a spending/taxes deficit that is at 2.5% and growing - all while in the middle of a cyclical boom underpinned by a chinese credit bubble that has skyrocketed demand for iron ore and metallurgical coal. Not many people know this, but Australia is basically the Saudi Arabia of high-grade coal and high grade Iron Ore. They also omitted the fact that personal debt - ie debt owed by people rather than the government is also one of the highest in the world. Australian also homes usually take out the top spots in the 'most unaffordable' list. They also omitted the fact that the workforce has gone from being one of the most free back to a much higher regulated workforce, and as a result productivity has dropped precariously and strike action has exploded. There is no mention in the article of what is termed 'the two speed economy' where manufacturing firms are struggling and retail businesses are closing their doors, mostly because of the high debt load servicing the unaffordable property market and because of diffculty competing against international imports (ie Amazon et al) caused by a strong currency and a very regulated labor market which drives up the cost of keeping stores open. Yes, the economy has been strong as a result of being underpinned by selling resources to fast-growing nations like China and India. So I agree with the central thesis that there is much to be proud of, but this type of preening article is a warning that people might start to get complacent and over-prescribe success to perfect management rather than being at the right point in the cyclical trend. The truth is the country is starting to behave like a 3rd generation family who inherets the hard work of the 1st and 2nd generation but isn't prepared to make the sacrifices that made it so. Crikey is a partisan website - not sure of the US equivalent but it's pretty hard left. It's where you go to confirm your beliefs rather than to get a balanced view.
- tankenmate 15y ago
  When it comes to personal debt Credit Suisse would beg to differ with you, their latest wealth figures have Australians handily richer per capita than every other country in the world bar Switzerland. As far as shop fronts are concerned; I live in the UK at the moment, the average town centre here has 25% of shop fonts boarded up, in some towns that figure exceeds 55%. In Australia you might get isolated areas where you get lots of boarded up shops due to local economic factors but you don't get a complete country wide phenomenon like the UK. Property prices in Australia are due to people wanting to live in big properties. Again in some places in Europe I have seen the equivalent of two up two down terrace houses of less than 100m2 in size converted into 4 separate flats. I think you could easily argue that Australians are spending their wealth on a better lifestyle. A fairly wise decision when you remember that you can't take it with you.
RockyMcNuts 15y ago
Dutch disease! Resource exports drive the currency up so much that the rest of the economy suffers. But international comparisons using that exchange rate look pretty good. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/us-australia-china-newspro-idUSTRE7B01UW20111201 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/us-australia-china...
jbarham 15y ago
Having moved from California to Australia a year ago, the main thing we're finding exceptional about Australia is the high cost of living. IMO the Australian economy is currently being squeezed in a vice between the insane property bubble and the resources boom and high Australian dollar making other sectors of the economy uncompetitive. Western Australia and Queensland (i.e., the two minerals states) are the only two states showing any significant growth. Australian retail, especially e-commerce, is completely uncompetitive compared to the U.S. Try picking a product at random from www.toysrus.com.au and compare the price on Amazon and even after international shipping it will almost always be much cheaper to just buy from Amazon. E.g., Megatron Transformers toy: $70 in Australia (http://www.toysrus.com.au/popular-boys-toys/kre-o-transformers-megatron/w1/i1197374_1193603/ http://www.toysrus.com.au/popular-boys-toys/kre-o-transforme...) vs. $25 at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/KRE-O-30688-Transformers-MEGATRON-SET/dp/B004PHTXW0 http://www.amazon.com/KRE-O-30688-Transformers-MEGATRON-SET/...). It's almost as if Australian e-commerce sites depend on their customers not having heard of the internet...
- scythe 15y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPP_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPP_per_capita When comparing income by country, you need to take into account cost of living, yes. This index I've linked does that; Australia is at parity with the richer countries in Europe, but behind the US, Switzerland and Norway.
- thmcmahon 15y ago
  Yes Australia has a higher cost of living than the United States, and recent high commodity prices have pushed up our exchange rate. However, if you are comparing prices across currency, then a lot of what you are seeing is due to a higher exchange rate. If you had moved to Australia in the early 2000s, you would've felt rich. Inflation is not currently a problem in Australia. See: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=aud+to+usd http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=aud+to+usd Re: the property bubble. House prices in Australia are high compared to historical levels. However, as this article from Crikey describes, Australian wages have risen too. While median house prices are still at a higher level compared to median wages (see: http://economics.hia.com.au/media/House%20price%20to%20income%20ratio%20-%20FINAL.pdf http://economics.hia.com.au/media/House%20price%20to%20incom...), they have been soft and in some cases reducing this year. They haven't 'burst' in the way the US housing bubble did. The differences between Australia and the US where you had a massive house bubble are numerous. * Australian banks are more heavily regulated and haven't lent 'sub-prime' mortgages. * Australian housing market has good fundamentals - our population growth has been quite high (due to overseas migration, like yourself!), and in most areas there is an undersupply of housing (with exceptions like the gold coast). I think you are overplaying the negatives in Australia, in general everything is working quite well as this convincing piece from Crikey shows.
adaml_623 15y ago
There are a lot of interesting facts about the Australian economy in the article but the most interesting thing about the article is the beginning and the end. Australians are fed a huge amount of misinformation by the media and politicians. Australians are very ignorant of the situation in other countries. Understandable considering they don't have direct neighbours but still a bit unfortunate.
- xelfer 15y ago
  They need to change channel from Today Tonight to SBS World News :)
  - mahmud 15y ago
    Chaser's war on everything.
dlitz 15y ago
Fairest... except for the censorship.
- keen 15y ago
  What censorship?
  - getsat 15y ago
    Pick your poison, mate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia
    - vacri 15y ago
      Happily: http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html We're freer by a point or so over the UK and the US (home of 'free speech'), as rated by Reporters Without Borders. Of Anglo culture nations in particular, NZ is way in the lead, Aus is #2.
zemaj 15y ago
If anyone from hacker news is looking to spend some time in Australia & work for a great startup, we're hiring: http://89n.com/content/careers http://89n.com/content/careers We're all setup to sponsor people and get you through the visa/immigration process :) Just shoot an email to jobs@89n.com and mention you're from HN!
- haakon666 15y ago
  If ever need a network engineer on a part time or on a on-call basis. Let me know. I'm based out of Brisbane. caskings@ionetworks.com.au
- unixIKnowThat 15y ago
  Martin Place haha, I work at Number 1. EZ mate.
- bartonfink 15y ago
  Hey, zemaj - I'm looking to move from the US to Sydney, but now's not the best time for me to pull the trigger. How frequently would you guess an offer like yours comes around?
chunkyslink 15y ago
As a Brit living in Perth this may all be true, but beware the cultural void. Nothing can prepare you for the dullness and isolation of living here. "Australia is like a library with a dozen or so books I've read, and re-read and read again. In London and Europe, it feels like I'm in a library that I'll never get to the bottom of" Justin Knock Yes they've got money, but the blandness of life here wears you down.
- motherwell 15y ago
  So true! But dude, you are in PERTH - the most isolated city in the world. Sydney and Melbourne are far less like that, especially now the dollar is high and we are starting to get better cultural acts visiting. And I think many Australians have seen as much of Europe as most Europeans - if not more. I hate that when I was in NYC, every night had a band or play or comedian that I wanted to see, but I wonder if Sydney is worse than, say, Buttfuck Iowa.
  - usaar333 15y ago
    I'm pretty sure Honolulu takes the spot for most isolated large city. Perth is a mere few days drive from some large cities (Adelaide). In Honolulu you are stuck on an island 2300 miles from the mainland.
    - brc 15y ago
      Flight time from Honolulu to LA is less than the flight time from Melbourne to Perth. Perth is the most geographically isolated city in the world.
      - rdouble 15y ago
        It's an hour longer from Honolulu to LA (or vice versa) than from Melbourne to Perth. The flight from Perth to Melbourne is only 3 hours and 30 minutes, less than flying from LA to Chicago.
        15y ago
deleted 15y ago
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shalmanese 15y ago
What's danced around in this piece is what specific circumstances arose to create the political class that managed to steer the economy so well. In fact, one of the enduring paradoxes of the Australian miracle is how such a dismal political process has managed to consistently produce competent leaders over a 30 year time span. The Economist did a special report on Australia in May that goes into much more detail: http://www.economist.com/node/18719530?story_id=18719530 http://www.economist.com/node/18719530?story_id=18719530
- twelvechairs 15y ago
  > how such a dismal political process has managed to consistently produce competent leaders I find this a strange comment. I find the Australian electoral system (if thats what you mean by political process) better than most of the other large western countries (USA, UK, etc.). As for the 'competant leaders' part - I'm not sure the leaders have much to do with Australia's success at all. Sure, the politicians do some good things, but also some pretty terrible things, just like most other western countries.... I think the economist article misses the point too of the natural wealth (not just minerals), and perhaps also a quite worldly attitude, being at the centre of Australia's economic success, rather than specific politicians...
D_Drake 15y ago
The article begins by taking pot shots at Americans. Classy. Following that, the article only presents statistics in the particular way that shows Australia as leading, while leaving the other ways unsaid. First it talks about GDP growth percentage without adjusting for population growth differences. Then it compares the average income growth per year while ignoring the hard numbers of both where it started and where it ended, removing the ability to compare income with other nations. This is followed by more of the same, an odd obsession with comparing the economic growth of Australia's poor to the rest of the world's rich, citing a high minimum wage as if it were an accomplishment instead of a fiat law, a claim that anyone who disagrees is in denial, and topped off with a shot at the American government. It seems Americans aren't the only ones who enjoy chart-fueled autofellatio.
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  Crikey leans left. Don't sweat it.
- vacri 15y ago
  It seems you're also not familiar with the usual self-depiction of Australia in the media - that we're a shit country spiralling into disaster, and nothing here is worthwhile (except those lovely miners and our sports teams)
- locusm 15y ago
  +1 for "chart-fueled autofellatio" thats a keeper!
- brc 15y ago
  Taking pot-shots at America is a favourite pastime of the Australian left. The leaders of the left side of politics usually take turns at doing their best to insult the American president and/or the American people. Of course all this sniping is done behind their back. If Air Force one actually touches down, they line up like preening peacocks at the bottom of the steps. The article is really about (a) trying to convince people Australia is on the right track politically and (b) trying to say 'hey, we don't have a 99/1 wealth spread like Americans do'.
JamisonM 15y ago
Australian economic performance is a testament to the power of protectionism. Nobody likes to admit it but Australia's relative isolation in the world as a developed nation it the best trade tariff the world has ever seen and helped them develop local industries that are more labour intensive and thus provide better income distribution than most other nations. The relatively recent revolution in container shipping is eroding the effects of the high cost of importing goods into their market, but that has dovetailed perfectly with China's hunger for their natural resources. It is exactly the kind of perfect storm that every politician loves to crow about their policies being responsible for when the reality is that geography and external forces have more to do with it than anything else.
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  I'm not sure if Australian consumers of the past 2 centuries would share your sanguine view of protectionism.
- nl 15y ago
  helped them develop local industries that are more labour intensive and thus provide better income distribution than most other nations That's just not true, and our high unemployment rates (until recently) show it. Australia has always been an importer of manufactured goods. Our car industry was supported by old fashioned import tariffs. Prior to the mineral boom, Australia's wealth came from mostly agricultural exports (eg wheat and wool)
  - JamisonM 15y ago
    Well, the most comparable economy in the world to Australia's in structure is Canada in terms of the mix of activities. Australia, for as long as OECD has been collecting data, has always had a lower unemployment rate than Canada (and Canada has liberalized trade at roughly the same pace, starting in the 80's). You can look that up here: http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=251 http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=251 I would define a high unemployment rate as one higher than a comparable peer nation, so I do not think Australia can be considered to have had high unemployment by that measure.
jacques_chester 15y ago
I think this is one of the better reactions in the Australian blogosphere: "As much as I am wary of discussions of national character, there’s another aspect of cricket that I think relates to Australian character. This is the fretting that comes from unfavourable comparison with the unattainable." http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/12/09/australia-f-yeah/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/12/09/australia-f-yeah/
- nl 15y ago
  That's a great post. I loved this: Imposter syndrome has a far better payoff than the Dunning Kruger effect. (Edit: I submitted a link from the comments on that as a post here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332497 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332497)
smackfu 15y ago
Now if only they could get rid of the terrible video poker parlors that are replacing all the pubs.
vorg 15y ago
Resources and demographics drive the economic fate of nations. There's a large land area (i.e. easily accessed minerals) divided by a small population (less than 25 million). Because the minerals are in the deserts, there's little public resistance to digging them up. Similar situation as Canada. With a similar cost: ceding effective political and economic control to the US, and accepting high numbers of immigrants from developing countries. The Europeans came 220 years ago, took the land off the indigenous people over the following century, then created a centrally-controlled federal border 110 years ago to keep out others. Australia became known as "White Australia". But they couldn't hold back nearby Asia's population for long. 70 years ago, Australia gave up control of their foreign policy and defence to the US to keep out Asia, and has been giving up economic control ever since. Many call Australia "the 52nd state". In the 1960's the immigration began: first from southern Europe, then from Asia. International students and immigrants lease the apartments and houses, keeping the rent high, eventually buying the houses, keeping the prices high. Like Canada and Northern California, most come from Asia. Australia/NZ and Canada are an economic, political, military, and cultural extension of the western USA, with the same immigration patterns. Immigration is the price of remaining politically part of the English-speaking empire instead of a Japanese, Chinese, or Indonesian-speaking one.
- corporalagumbo 15y ago
  Some questions. 1) How does the USA have political and economic control of Australia? 2) If Australia had not ceded political and economic control to the USA, what would have happened re: Asia? Are you talking invasion? 3) Why is immigration the price of remaining politically part of the English-speaking empire? Furthermore: 4) Do you think that immigration is altering the status quo of Australia/NZ/Canada as English-speaking imperial extensions/nations, resulting in new "mongrelised" nations, or is it shifting these countries to become more Asian, or is it tacitly maintaining the status quo?
derrida 15y ago
And 50% of over 65s live below the UN poverty line. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/elderly-poverty-rate-hits-50-per-cent/1340276.aspx http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/elde...

106 points by jdub 15y ago

jorkos 15y ago

Selling dirt to China really skews these numbers....and as a Canadian I should know.

tankenmate 15y ago
Hardly; agriculture and mining _combined_ make up 10% of GDP. 68% of Australian GDP comes from the services sector. These figures courtesy of the Australian Bureau of Statistics in the year 2006. Agriculture and mining do make up 57% of exports however, thus keeping the trade balance on keel.
- brc 15y ago
  2006 and 2011 might be massively different in terms of GDP makeup. You also forget to mention that much of those services are underpinned by the money generated from the export industries.
- nl 15y ago
  The size of GDP mostly correlates to population (assuming stable living conditions). "How well" and economy is going correlates well to exports. Agriculture and mining do make up 57% of exports however, thus keeping the trade balance on keel. Mining makes up 47% of the total - agriculture as a whole is smaller than Gold alone, and roughly the size of our crude petroleum exports (I never realize that!). See http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade/trade-at-a-glance-2011.html http://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/trade/trade-at-a-glance-...
zmmmmm 15y ago
Indeed - I think many Australians fail to recognize their good fortune because by and large they had nothing to do with it. It just happened in a far off part of the country without them noticing.
- femto 15y ago
  And it's nothing new. In 1964 Donald Horne penned a book "The Lucky Country", which caused many Australians to start referring to Australia as "The Lucky Country". The bit they miss is that the full quote was. "Australia is a lucky country, run by second-rate people who share its luck." Ouch! It's a bit harsh, in that Australia does punch above its weight in some areas (eg. excellent radio astronomy program and some very good medicos). It's spot on for other areas though, such as the majority of business and political leadership. One gets the feeling that the things that succeed in Australia do so in spite of the leadership, not because of it.
  - grecy 15y ago
    (I'm Australian) It's interesting to note, if you say "The Luck Country" to Aussies under about 25 years old, they have no idea what you are talking about.
  - brc 15y ago
    Exactly! One of the less-discussed effects of 'Dutch Disease' is that it creates a political class who are determined to capture the inflow of new money and distribute it for their own needs. The thing I get frustrated about is that people continuously say 'look we're better than Japan or the USA or the UK'. But what I want to say is 'well, why aren't we the richest country on the planet with the highest standard of living for all?'. Comparing yourself to mediocre performance just leads to reversion to the mean because people -as you say - become second rate and share in the luck, convincing themselves it was their wise stewardship that made the luck happen.
  - vacri 15y ago
    when you say 'political leadership', are you including things like the world-first legislated 8-hour work day? The world-second women's vote? Or more recent world firsts, like the mining profits tax? Australia has it's downsides (like the WAP that only ceased half a century ago) but it's a pretty progressive nation, if you bother to compare it to other nations rather than utopia. Where are the other powerful, inspiring leaders? There's nothing unusually bad about ours.
- 15y ago

tankenmate 15y ago

One of the wisest moves I have seen by a bunch of politicians in the world was the introduction of the superannuation system in Australia. I have lived in a number of countries around the world and I don't understand why more countries don't adopt a similar system.

te_chris 15y ago
We did it here in New Zealand as well in the 1970's, one of our previous Prime Minister's portrayed it as "reds under the bed" etc etc, destroyed it, and now we're paying for it dearly. Stupidest move in NZ's economic history as far as I'm concerned. According to current studies, we would've had one of the largest soverign wealth funds in the world if we'd kept up with it since its inception. Policy blunders like this are par for the course here though, Normally committed by the right-wing/conservative (as in economically, not religious, we don't really give them much space in our national discourse) National Party.
- nl 15y ago
  Superannuation (at least in Australia, generally speaking) is privately run. You don't end up with a soverign wealth fund. (Although you do end up with a large amount of capital looking for places to be invested)
brc 15y ago
There are many good policy ideas implemented in Australia. The superannuation system is pretty good - it has problems but overall is good for the country. The healthcare system also manages to tread a fine line between having a public safety net (ie, everyone gets free treatment) but also encouraging private health insurance and private healthcare for those who can afford it. There are many sensible insurance regulations around, such as compulsory third-party-personal insurance that comes attached to vehicle registration, so that if you're a licensed driver driving a licensed vehicle, even if you run over 50 pedestrians you're covered for their losses and they are all covered for medical insurance, compensation payouts and rehabilitation. The dividend tax system is also quite good, in that, if you're an Australian taxpayer, you can claim a tax rebate on the dividends you receive from revenue arising from an Australian company. So an Australian company pays tax on it's earnings, then pays some of those earnings out to taxpayers via dividends. The dividend recipient can then claim what is called a 'franking credit' on that dividend which is offset against their own earnings. It sounds complicated but what it essentially means is that Australian corporate income is only taxed once - you don't get double taxed for paying out dividends. As a result, Australian companies pay healthy dividends, which underpins investment in Australian companies by individuals requiring income from shareholdings. Of course, there are some dumb policies as well, but in general things work pretty well, and, as the article says, quality of life and income spread at ranked very highly in world terms.

brc 15y ago

Some sleight of hand there- they try and play down the government debt because it's low, but omitted the fact that 4 years ago it used to be zero and now is growing faster than Ireland did before it went bust. This is happening because of a spending/taxes deficit that is at 2.5% and growing - all while in the middle of a cyclical boom underpinned by a chinese credit bubble that has skyrocketed demand for iron ore and metallurgical coal. Not many people know this, but Australia is basically the Saudi Arabia of high-grade coal and high grade Iron Ore. They also omitted the fact that personal debt - ie debt owed by people rather than the government is also one of the highest in the world. Australian also homes usually take out the top spots in the 'most unaffordable' list. They also omitted the fact that the workforce has gone from being one of the most free back to a much higher regulated workforce, and as a result productivity has dropped precariously and strike action has exploded. There is no mention in the article of what is termed 'the two speed economy' where manufacturing firms are struggling and retail businesses are closing their doors, mostly because of the high debt load servicing the unaffordable property market and because of diffculty competing against international imports (ie Amazon et al) caused by a strong currency and a very regulated labor market which drives up the cost of keeping stores open. Yes, the economy has been strong as a result of being underpinned by selling resources to fast-growing nations like China and India. So I agree with the central thesis that there is much to be proud of, but this type of preening article is a warning that people might start to get complacent and over-prescribe success to perfect management rather than being at the right point in the cyclical trend. The truth is the country is starting to behave like a 3rd generation family who inherets the hard work of the 1st and 2nd generation but isn't prepared to make the sacrifices that made it so. Crikey is a partisan website - not sure of the US equivalent but it's pretty hard left. It's where you go to confirm your beliefs rather than to get a balanced view.

tankenmate 15y ago
When it comes to personal debt Credit Suisse would beg to differ with you, their latest wealth figures have Australians handily richer per capita than every other country in the world bar Switzerland. As far as shop fronts are concerned; I live in the UK at the moment, the average town centre here has 25% of shop fonts boarded up, in some towns that figure exceeds 55%. In Australia you might get isolated areas where you get lots of boarded up shops due to local economic factors but you don't get a complete country wide phenomenon like the UK. Property prices in Australia are due to people wanting to live in big properties. Again in some places in Europe I have seen the equivalent of two up two down terrace houses of less than 100m2 in size converted into 4 separate flats. I think you could easily argue that Australians are spending their wealth on a better lifestyle. A fairly wise decision when you remember that you can't take it with you.

RockyMcNuts 15y ago

Dutch disease! Resource exports drive the currency up so much that the rest of the economy suffers. But international comparisons using that exchange rate look pretty good. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/us-australia-china-newspro-idUSTRE7B01UW20111201 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/01/us-australia-china...

jbarham 15y ago

Having moved from California to Australia a year ago, the main thing we're finding exceptional about Australia is the high cost of living. IMO the Australian economy is currently being squeezed in a vice between the insane property bubble and the resources boom and high Australian dollar making other sectors of the economy uncompetitive. Western Australia and Queensland (i.e., the two minerals states) are the only two states showing any significant growth. Australian retail, especially e-commerce, is completely uncompetitive compared to the U.S. Try picking a product at random from www.toysrus.com.au and compare the price on Amazon and even after international shipping it will almost always be much cheaper to just buy from Amazon. E.g., Megatron Transformers toy: $70 in Australia (http://www.toysrus.com.au/popular-boys-toys/kre-o-transformers-megatron/w1/i1197374_1193603/ http://www.toysrus.com.au/popular-boys-toys/kre-o-transforme...) vs. $25 at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/KRE-O-30688-Transformers-MEGATRON-SET/dp/B004PHTXW0 http://www.amazon.com/KRE-O-30688-Transformers-MEGATRON-SET/...). It's almost as if Australian e-commerce sites depend on their customers not having heard of the internet...

scythe 15y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPP_per_capita http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPP_per_capita When comparing income by country, you need to take into account cost of living, yes. This index I've linked does that; Australia is at parity with the richer countries in Europe, but behind the US, Switzerland and Norway.
thmcmahon 15y ago
Yes Australia has a higher cost of living than the United States, and recent high commodity prices have pushed up our exchange rate. However, if you are comparing prices across currency, then a lot of what you are seeing is due to a higher exchange rate. If you had moved to Australia in the early 2000s, you would've felt rich. Inflation is not currently a problem in Australia. See: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=aud+to+usd http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=aud+to+usd Re: the property bubble. House prices in Australia are high compared to historical levels. However, as this article from Crikey describes, Australian wages have risen too. While median house prices are still at a higher level compared to median wages (see: http://economics.hia.com.au/media/House%20price%20to%20income%20ratio%20-%20FINAL.pdf http://economics.hia.com.au/media/House%20price%20to%20incom...), they have been soft and in some cases reducing this year. They haven't 'burst' in the way the US housing bubble did. The differences between Australia and the US where you had a massive house bubble are numerous. * Australian banks are more heavily regulated and haven't lent 'sub-prime' mortgages. * Australian housing market has good fundamentals - our population growth has been quite high (due to overseas migration, like yourself!), and in most areas there is an undersupply of housing (with exceptions like the gold coast). I think you are overplaying the negatives in Australia, in general everything is working quite well as this convincing piece from Crikey shows.

adaml_623 15y ago

There are a lot of interesting facts about the Australian economy in the article but the most interesting thing about the article is the beginning and the end. Australians are fed a huge amount of misinformation by the media and politicians. Australians are very ignorant of the situation in other countries. Understandable considering they don't have direct neighbours but still a bit unfortunate.

xelfer 15y ago
They need to change channel from Today Tonight to SBS World News :)
- mahmud 15y ago
  Chaser's war on everything.

dlitz 15y ago

Fairest... except for the censorship.

keen 15y ago
What censorship?
- getsat 15y ago
  Pick your poison, mate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Australia
  - vacri 15y ago
    Happily: http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html http://en.rsf.org/press-freedom-index-2010,1034.html We're freer by a point or so over the UK and the US (home of 'free speech'), as rated by Reporters Without Borders. Of Anglo culture nations in particular, NZ is way in the lead, Aus is #2.

zemaj 15y ago

If anyone from hacker news is looking to spend some time in Australia & work for a great startup, we're hiring: http://89n.com/content/careers http://89n.com/content/careers We're all setup to sponsor people and get you through the visa/immigration process :) Just shoot an email to jobs@89n.com and mention you're from HN!

haakon666 15y ago
If ever need a network engineer on a part time or on a on-call basis. Let me know. I'm based out of Brisbane. caskings@ionetworks.com.au
unixIKnowThat 15y ago
Martin Place haha, I work at Number 1. EZ mate.
bartonfink 15y ago
Hey, zemaj - I'm looking to move from the US to Sydney, but now's not the best time for me to pull the trigger. How frequently would you guess an offer like yours comes around?

chunkyslink 15y ago

As a Brit living in Perth this may all be true, but beware the cultural void. Nothing can prepare you for the dullness and isolation of living here. "Australia is like a library with a dozen or so books I've read, and re-read and read again. In London and Europe, it feels like I'm in a library that I'll never get to the bottom of" Justin Knock Yes they've got money, but the blandness of life here wears you down.

motherwell 15y ago
So true! But dude, you are in PERTH - the most isolated city in the world. Sydney and Melbourne are far less like that, especially now the dollar is high and we are starting to get better cultural acts visiting. And I think many Australians have seen as much of Europe as most Europeans - if not more. I hate that when I was in NYC, every night had a band or play or comedian that I wanted to see, but I wonder if Sydney is worse than, say, Buttfuck Iowa.
- usaar333 15y ago
  I'm pretty sure Honolulu takes the spot for most isolated large city. Perth is a mere few days drive from some large cities (Adelaide). In Honolulu you are stuck on an island 2300 miles from the mainland.
  - brc 15y ago
    Flight time from Honolulu to LA is less than the flight time from Melbourne to Perth. Perth is the most geographically isolated city in the world.
    - rdouble 15y ago
      It's an hour longer from Honolulu to LA (or vice versa) than from Melbourne to Perth. The flight from Perth to Melbourne is only 3 hours and 30 minutes, less than flying from LA to Chicago.
      - 15y ago

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shalmanese 15y ago

What's danced around in this piece is what specific circumstances arose to create the political class that managed to steer the economy so well. In fact, one of the enduring paradoxes of the Australian miracle is how such a dismal political process has managed to consistently produce competent leaders over a 30 year time span. The Economist did a special report on Australia in May that goes into much more detail: http://www.economist.com/node/18719530?story_id=18719530 http://www.economist.com/node/18719530?story_id=18719530

twelvechairs 15y ago
> how such a dismal political process has managed to consistently produce competent leaders I find this a strange comment. I find the Australian electoral system (if thats what you mean by political process) better than most of the other large western countries (USA, UK, etc.). As for the 'competant leaders' part - I'm not sure the leaders have much to do with Australia's success at all. Sure, the politicians do some good things, but also some pretty terrible things, just like most other western countries.... I think the economist article misses the point too of the natural wealth (not just minerals), and perhaps also a quite worldly attitude, being at the centre of Australia's economic success, rather than specific politicians...

D_Drake 15y ago

The article begins by taking pot shots at Americans. Classy. Following that, the article only presents statistics in the particular way that shows Australia as leading, while leaving the other ways unsaid. First it talks about GDP growth percentage without adjusting for population growth differences. Then it compares the average income growth per year while ignoring the hard numbers of both where it started and where it ended, removing the ability to compare income with other nations. This is followed by more of the same, an odd obsession with comparing the economic growth of Australia's poor to the rest of the world's rich, citing a high minimum wage as if it were an accomplishment instead of a fiat law, a claim that anyone who disagrees is in denial, and topped off with a shot at the American government. It seems Americans aren't the only ones who enjoy chart-fueled autofellatio.

jacques_chester 15y ago
Crikey leans left. Don't sweat it.
vacri 15y ago
It seems you're also not familiar with the usual self-depiction of Australia in the media - that we're a shit country spiralling into disaster, and nothing here is worthwhile (except those lovely miners and our sports teams)
locusm 15y ago
+1 for "chart-fueled autofellatio" thats a keeper!
brc 15y ago
Taking pot-shots at America is a favourite pastime of the Australian left. The leaders of the left side of politics usually take turns at doing their best to insult the American president and/or the American people. Of course all this sniping is done behind their back. If Air Force one actually touches down, they line up like preening peacocks at the bottom of the steps. The article is really about (a) trying to convince people Australia is on the right track politically and (b) trying to say 'hey, we don't have a 99/1 wealth spread like Americans do'.

JamisonM 15y ago

Australian economic performance is a testament to the power of protectionism. Nobody likes to admit it but Australia's relative isolation in the world as a developed nation it the best trade tariff the world has ever seen and helped them develop local industries that are more labour intensive and thus provide better income distribution than most other nations. The relatively recent revolution in container shipping is eroding the effects of the high cost of importing goods into their market, but that has dovetailed perfectly with China's hunger for their natural resources. It is exactly the kind of perfect storm that every politician loves to crow about their policies being responsible for when the reality is that geography and external forces have more to do with it than anything else.

jacques_chester 15y ago
I'm not sure if Australian consumers of the past 2 centuries would share your sanguine view of protectionism.
nl 15y ago
helped them develop local industries that are more labour intensive and thus provide better income distribution than most other nations That's just not true, and our high unemployment rates (until recently) show it. Australia has always been an importer of manufactured goods. Our car industry was supported by old fashioned import tariffs. Prior to the mineral boom, Australia's wealth came from mostly agricultural exports (eg wheat and wool)
- JamisonM 15y ago
  Well, the most comparable economy in the world to Australia's in structure is Canada in terms of the mix of activities. Australia, for as long as OECD has been collecting data, has always had a lower unemployment rate than Canada (and Canada has liberalized trade at roughly the same pace, starting in the 80's). You can look that up here: http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=251 http://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=251 I would define a high unemployment rate as one higher than a comparable peer nation, so I do not think Australia can be considered to have had high unemployment by that measure.

jacques_chester 15y ago

I think this is one of the better reactions in the Australian blogosphere: "As much as I am wary of discussions of national character, there’s another aspect of cricket that I think relates to Australian character. This is the fretting that comes from unfavourable comparison with the unattainable." http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/12/09/australia-f-yeah/ http://clubtroppo.com.au/2011/12/09/australia-f-yeah/

nl 15y ago
That's a great post. I loved this: Imposter syndrome has a far better payoff than the Dunning Kruger effect. (Edit: I submitted a link from the comments on that as a post here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332497 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3332497)

smackfu 15y ago

Now if only they could get rid of the terrible video poker parlors that are replacing all the pubs.

vorg 15y ago

Resources and demographics drive the economic fate of nations. There's a large land area (i.e. easily accessed minerals) divided by a small population (less than 25 million). Because the minerals are in the deserts, there's little public resistance to digging them up. Similar situation as Canada. With a similar cost: ceding effective political and economic control to the US, and accepting high numbers of immigrants from developing countries. The Europeans came 220 years ago, took the land off the indigenous people over the following century, then created a centrally-controlled federal border 110 years ago to keep out others. Australia became known as "White Australia". But they couldn't hold back nearby Asia's population for long. 70 years ago, Australia gave up control of their foreign policy and defence to the US to keep out Asia, and has been giving up economic control ever since. Many call Australia "the 52nd state". In the 1960's the immigration began: first from southern Europe, then from Asia. International students and immigrants lease the apartments and houses, keeping the rent high, eventually buying the houses, keeping the prices high. Like Canada and Northern California, most come from Asia. Australia/NZ and Canada are an economic, political, military, and cultural extension of the western USA, with the same immigration patterns. Immigration is the price of remaining politically part of the English-speaking empire instead of a Japanese, Chinese, or Indonesian-speaking one.

corporalagumbo 15y ago
Some questions. 1) How does the USA have political and economic control of Australia? 2) If Australia had not ceded political and economic control to the USA, what would have happened re: Asia? Are you talking invasion? 3) Why is immigration the price of remaining politically part of the English-speaking empire? Furthermore: 4) Do you think that immigration is altering the status quo of Australia/NZ/Canada as English-speaking imperial extensions/nations, resulting in new "mongrelised" nations, or is it shifting these countries to become more Asian, or is it tacitly maintaining the status quo?

derrida 15y ago

And 50% of over 65s live below the UN poverty line. http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/elderly-poverty-rate-hits-50-per-cent/1340276.aspx http://www.canberratimes.com.au/news/local/news/general/elde...