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Mac also comes with all sort of crap installed you cannot get rid of. It may be a bit less intrusive than Microsoft, but it's basically the same strategy, just

Mac also comes with all sort of crap installed you cannot get rid of. It may be a bit less intrusive than Microsoft, but it's basically the same strategy, just that they control the hardware and you don't notice it that much. Linux gives you full customizability on the other hand, but it's not for everybody (yes, in theory there are some very simple and usable distros, but in practice users often need software that is not available on them, like Office).

josephg 4y ago
At least a modern Mac is smooth and usable out of the box - which is more than I can say for just about any big brand windows laptop you can buy today. It feels like theft when a windows laptop is advertised based on its CPU, except when you take it out of the box 60% of that cpu is consumed all the time with some terrible HP bloatware or something. What an utterly terrible experience.
aikinai 4y ago
What crap that you can’t get rid of does a Mac come with?
- flohofwoe 4y ago
  Most of the preinstalled apps (Home, Maps, Siri, Stocks, ...) cannot be uninstalled by dragging them from the Applications folder to the Trashcan. I don't have any use for any for those apps, so I would really like to get rid of them instead of cluttering up my Applications folder. For some others it works (for instance Numbers and GarageBand). The randomness (why can some preinstalled apps be uninstalled, but other not) is pretty close to a dark pattern.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    I don't think you can uninstall Cortana or Calculator from Windows. The stocks app I will grant is a little weird. The uninstallable apps on macOS also are never required to have open and running. So yea, it's 4 or 5 extra items in your main ~/Applications folder, but that seems like a small price to pay for all of the other benefits.
  - aikinai 4y ago
    I see. Agree you should be able to delete those, but even if you don't use them, they're a far cry from "crap" especially in the context of the discussion about exploitative bloatware that runs constantly and makes low-end laptops unusable. None of the extra Apple apps do anything unless you run them, so the worst case they take some storage and mental space (when you see them in your Applications folder). And they're obviously included because Apple thinks they're actually useful to enough people, even if you disagree.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Yea, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that cannot be uninstalled. Perhaps iMessages/Facetime. Maybe they are referencing the fully populated Dock? Those apps can all be uninstalled though. It's not different than Windows or Linux showing you the default apps that come with the OS.
- treis 4y ago
  The music app
concordDance 4y ago
What's wrong with LibreOffice?

josephg 4y ago

At least a modern Mac is smooth and usable out of the box - which is more than I can say for just about any big brand windows laptop you can buy today. It feels like theft when a windows laptop is advertised based on its CPU, except when you take it out of the box 60% of that cpu is consumed all the time with some terrible HP bloatware or something. What an utterly terrible experience.

aikinai 4y ago

What crap that you can’t get rid of does a Mac come with?

flohofwoe 4y ago
Most of the preinstalled apps (Home, Maps, Siri, Stocks, ...) cannot be uninstalled by dragging them from the Applications folder to the Trashcan. I don't have any use for any for those apps, so I would really like to get rid of them instead of cluttering up my Applications folder. For some others it works (for instance Numbers and GarageBand). The randomness (why can some preinstalled apps be uninstalled, but other not) is pretty close to a dark pattern.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  I don't think you can uninstall Cortana or Calculator from Windows. The stocks app I will grant is a little weird. The uninstallable apps on macOS also are never required to have open and running. So yea, it's 4 or 5 extra items in your main ~/Applications folder, but that seems like a small price to pay for all of the other benefits.
- aikinai 4y ago
  I see. Agree you should be able to delete those, but even if you don't use them, they're a far cry from "crap" especially in the context of the discussion about exploitative bloatware that runs constantly and makes low-end laptops unusable. None of the extra Apple apps do anything unless you run them, so the worst case they take some storage and mental space (when you see them in your Applications folder). And they're obviously included because Apple thinks they're actually useful to enough people, even if you disagree.
yurishimo 4y ago
Yea, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that cannot be uninstalled. Perhaps iMessages/Facetime. Maybe they are referencing the fully populated Dock? Those apps can all be uninstalled though. It's not different than Windows or Linux showing you the default apps that come with the OS.
treis 4y ago
The music app

concordDance 4y ago

What's wrong with LibreOffice?