4 ms·

I’ll say it. Obviously some people with severe mental illness will need support the rest of their lives, but the people that are homeless because they’re addict

I’ll say it. Obviously some people with severe mental illness will need support the rest of their lives, but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? The only way they’re going to stop is if they hit rock bottom. If you’re enabling their behavior that’s never going to happen. And yeah, it’d be rough for them and some will die, but that will cause some others to never go down that road.

yellowapple 4y ago
> but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? You've got it backwards: they're getting high all day because they're homeless and doing what little they can to cope with the insane amounts of stress that entails. Once you recognize that inverted causality, the solution becomes obvious: provide them with housing and help them back onto their feet.
- Jarwain 4y ago
  I think both of y'all are right in different circumstances; imo a good policy would handle both cases
- keneda7 4y ago
  So you claim the solution is something that has already been done. SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. Yet with your so called obvious solution the problem has gotten worse.
  - HappySweeney 4y ago
    A hotel room is not a home.
    - keneda7 4y ago
      No its not. However a hotel room allows them a place to stay and clean while they look for a job and get on their feet. Once they have a job, they can look for a home. Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. As far as affordable housing, the issue in SF is created and continued by its own residents. They deserve a big part of the blame. If they want to fix it, vote in people that actually allow some damn affordable housing to be built. They all say they want to fix it, as long as its not fixed by putting affordable housing around them.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - HappySweeney 4y ago
        > Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. I think you may be responding to the wrong comment? I never said any of this stuff.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. $100 million dollars divided by the approx. 8,000 homeless people in SF¹ (and that's just the ones the city was able to go around counting; I can guarantee that number's far below the actual homeless population) comes out to $12,500 per person. That doesn't cover the year's rent for even so much as a closet in SF, let alone something that even marginally qualifies as a home. So no, the solution I claim has not been done. Far from it. I'm quite frankly amazed the city could find hotel rooms for that cheap - or, the more likely explanation being that the city is only putting that money toward a fraction of the homeless population. ---- ¹: https://sfgov.org/scorecards/safety-net/homeless-population https://sfgov.org/scorecards/safety-net/homeless-population
saiya-jin 4y ago
> The only way they’re going to stop is if they hit rock bottom. If you’re enabling their behavior that’s never going to happen. And yeah, it’d be rough for them and some will die, but that will cause some others to never go down that road. Now this is some proper fucked up high horse shitty cruelty. Its appalling to read it here to keep things polite. It seems you have no clue whatsoever about addictions, how to treat them, what works and what is just some arrogant entitled wishful thinking. I realize similar extreme people are rather outliers, but not so much as we would wish for, hence the topic discussed. One of those moments when its so darn easy to say 'we have it figured out in Europe in much better and humane way than across the pond'. I could write an essay about how we have methadone, heroin etc. no-question-asked dispensaries in the middle of one of the richest cities globally, shelters for the poor and actually treat mental illnesses appropriately, but I don't think your type cares about that. Needless to say, we don't have these issues at all while having similar folks as part of society.
- Auracle 4y ago
  I'll admit I haven't known many people addicted to drugs, but I have known some. Both of my grandparents were alcoholics, and both finally stopped after a lifetime. One was when her husband stopped enabling her - far too late, when she was already dying. The other was when he was forced into a long term care facility because again, he could no longer take care of himself and was dying. People addicted to drugs are only going to stop if they have a reason to. It used to be a mantra: addicts will only stop if they want to and you can't force them. There are plenty of enabling parents out there that eventually learn this lesson the hard way.

yellowapple 4y ago

> but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? You've got it backwards: they're getting high all day because they're homeless and doing what little they can to cope with the insane amounts of stress that entails. Once you recognize that inverted causality, the solution becomes obvious: provide them with housing and help them back onto their feet.

Jarwain 4y ago
I think both of y'all are right in different circumstances; imo a good policy would handle both cases
keneda7 4y ago
So you claim the solution is something that has already been done. SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. Yet with your so called obvious solution the problem has gotten worse.
- HappySweeney 4y ago
  A hotel room is not a home.
  - keneda7 4y ago
    No its not. However a hotel room allows them a place to stay and clean while they look for a job and get on their feet. Once they have a job, they can look for a home. Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. As far as affordable housing, the issue in SF is created and continued by its own residents. They deserve a big part of the blame. If they want to fix it, vote in people that actually allow some damn affordable housing to be built. They all say they want to fix it, as long as its not fixed by putting affordable housing around them.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - HappySweeney 4y ago
      > Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. I think you may be responding to the wrong comment? I never said any of this stuff.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. $100 million dollars divided by the approx. 8,000 homeless people in SF¹ (and that's just the ones the city was able to go around counting; I can guarantee that number's far below the actual homeless population) comes out to $12,500 per person. That doesn't cover the year's rent for even so much as a closet in SF, let alone something that even marginally qualifies as a home. So no, the solution I claim has not been done. Far from it. I'm quite frankly amazed the city could find hotel rooms for that cheap - or, the more likely explanation being that the city is only putting that money toward a fraction of the homeless population. ---- ¹: https://sfgov.org/scorecards/safety-net/homeless-population https://sfgov.org/scorecards/safety-net/homeless-population

saiya-jin 4y ago

> The only way they’re going to stop is if they hit rock bottom. If you’re enabling their behavior that’s never going to happen. And yeah, it’d be rough for them and some will die, but that will cause some others to never go down that road. Now this is some proper fucked up high horse shitty cruelty. Its appalling to read it here to keep things polite. It seems you have no clue whatsoever about addictions, how to treat them, what works and what is just some arrogant entitled wishful thinking. I realize similar extreme people are rather outliers, but not so much as we would wish for, hence the topic discussed. One of those moments when its so darn easy to say 'we have it figured out in Europe in much better and humane way than across the pond'. I could write an essay about how we have methadone, heroin etc. no-question-asked dispensaries in the middle of one of the richest cities globally, shelters for the poor and actually treat mental illnesses appropriately, but I don't think your type cares about that. Needless to say, we don't have these issues at all while having similar folks as part of society.

Auracle 4y ago
I'll admit I haven't known many people addicted to drugs, but I have known some. Both of my grandparents were alcoholics, and both finally stopped after a lifetime. One was when her husband stopped enabling her - far too late, when she was already dying. The other was when he was forced into a long term care facility because again, he could no longer take care of himself and was dying. People addicted to drugs are only going to stop if they have a reason to. It used to be a mantra: addicts will only stop if they want to and you can't force them. There are plenty of enabling parents out there that eventually learn this lesson the hard way.