5 ms·

We are blessed with a lot of public spaces in Berlin. Not just squares but also parks, lakes and bike paths in nature. This is where we met all summer. Grillin

by nicbou 4y ago

We are blessed with a lot of public spaces in Berlin. Not just squares but also parks, lakes and bike paths in nature. This is where we met all summer. Grilling in the park, cycling around, swimming in lakes etc. You meet your friends and their friends too. You bring your dates there. You have hard conversations there. You play sports together there. It's not just about socialisation. It's a place where you can be not-home. You don't have to eat or drink alcohol or pay. You can just linger there and be left alone. Public spaces are so incredibly important, but I don't imagine the political class as people who go to parks a lot.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>We are blessed with a lot of public spaces in Berlin. And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. >Public spaces are so incredibly important, but I don't imagine the political class as people who go to parks a lot. So much this on both fronts. In many countries, like Austria and others I'm sure, the political class really has neglected public spaces that aren't for tourists, as they're not the users of it. Public parks have mostly been relegated as places for the "poor" and "working class" to hang out who can't afford a house in the green suburbs with a nice big garden surrounded by forests. Which is ironic since the rich kids are always driving their cars from their suburbs to the parks downtown to hang out as that's where the best parties are. :)
- vanderZwan 4y ago
  > And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. That isn't exactly unique to Berlin you know. And IIRC at least the local government tried to do something about it (but was struck down in higher courts).
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >the local government tried to do something about it (but was struck down in higher courts). What the local government tried to do was freeze the rents which only made the situation worse, not better.
    - marcus_holmes 4y ago
      Yes but they get points for trying. At least they see what rampant price inflation has done to other cities and aren't cheering it on as a neo-con victory. Contrast (any city in) Australia which is stuck in a nightmare loop of homelessness and political pressure to keep the house prices high (from homeowners) and affordable (from everyone else). Or London, where house prices are now so high it is mostly owned by absent foreigners.
      - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
        >Yes but they get points for trying. Sorry, but trying an obviously populist measure that further sinks housing availability and makes thing worse for everyone does not get you any points anywhere.
        marcus_holmes 4y ago
        In Australia this would not be a populist move. The difference in housing situation/markets is really interesting. The key point that Berlin seems to realise, but Australia definitely doesn't, is that the purpose of houses is for people to live in them, not make money investing in them.
- nicbou 4y ago
  > And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. I know! I help people settle in Berlin, and I don't know what to tell incoming students anymore. I'm not sure how they can find a place to live in a reasonable time frame. I hear that it's worse elsewhere, but it's no consolation.
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    >I hear that it's worse elsewhere Out of curiosity where is it worse? What if it's like the "grass is greener" effect but in reverse, where people use the "it's worse elsewhere" argument to comfort themselves for their bad living conditions or other discomforts in life. I mean, I'm sure there are cities where it's worse, but like you said, that doesn't improve the situation for those wishing to live in Berlin so it's kinda pointless to look at places that are worse instead of fighting to improve the location you live in.
    - nicbou 4y ago
      I heard that it's the same or worse in other capitals. The message is not "it's not so bad", it's "housing is spiraling out of control in all major cities, what's the endgame?"
FlyingSnake 4y ago
Touché. Living in Berlin during the post Covid phase is a life saver.
netmonk 4y ago
Have you ever considered that public space, urbanisation are a proto form of nudging. If not, consider that the best minds in the 50 and 60 were considering subtle form of propaganda and manipalution by intelligent and adapted design of environment. Outside conscious detection, the human herd in urban envIronment are manipulated, nudged, and controlled the same way cattle are milked in modern factories. Those parks you seems to worship are just existing in your environment cause someone decided that you should worship those parks in your environment. The remaining question is: for what ? I would guess, happy and voluntary self alienation. Nobody question the paradoxal stupidity of feeling lonely in the most dense areas existing on the surface of earth. How can you feel lonely when you have more than a thousand peoples surrounding you in a range smaller than 100m away from you.
- aspyct 4y ago
  Dude, what? Parks are there so you can have a breather. There's no propaganda written on the trees, in the grass or in the sky. You know, happy healthy people are good for the economy. That's all.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  It's really quite impressive to equate access to nice parks to factory farming as a bad thing while also claiming that people must be socially sated because they live in densely packed areas.
- nicbou 4y ago
  I worship those parks because they're nice. I've lived in North American suburbs too. You'd have to drag me back there kicking and screaming. If a conspiracy is so nebulous that you can't define it's motives, perhaps you're grasping at straws.
- netmonk 4y ago
  the level of naive is quite fabulous. being downvoted by moron is a rare pleasure.

by nicbou 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

ChuckNorris89 4y ago

>We are blessed with a lot of public spaces in Berlin. And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. >Public spaces are so incredibly important, but I don't imagine the political class as people who go to parks a lot. So much this on both fronts. In many countries, like Austria and others I'm sure, the political class really has neglected public spaces that aren't for tourists, as they're not the users of it. Public parks have mostly been relegated as places for the "poor" and "working class" to hang out who can't afford a house in the green suburbs with a nice big garden surrounded by forests. Which is ironic since the rich kids are always driving their cars from their suburbs to the parks downtown to hang out as that's where the best parties are. :)

vanderZwan 4y ago
> And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. That isn't exactly unique to Berlin you know. And IIRC at least the local government tried to do something about it (but was struck down in higher courts).
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >the local government tried to do something about it (but was struck down in higher courts). What the local government tried to do was freeze the rents which only made the situation worse, not better.
  - marcus_holmes 4y ago
    Yes but they get points for trying. At least they see what rampant price inflation has done to other cities and aren't cheering it on as a neo-con victory. Contrast (any city in) Australia which is stuck in a nightmare loop of homelessness and political pressure to keep the house prices high (from homeowners) and affordable (from everyone else). Or London, where house prices are now so high it is mostly owned by absent foreigners.
    - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
      >Yes but they get points for trying. Sorry, but trying an obviously populist measure that further sinks housing availability and makes thing worse for everyone does not get you any points anywhere.
      - marcus_holmes 4y ago
        In Australia this would not be a populist move. The difference in housing situation/markets is really interesting. The key point that Berlin seems to realise, but Australia definitely doesn't, is that the purpose of houses is for people to live in them, not make money investing in them.
nicbou 4y ago
> And cursed with a terrible housing market, especially for newcomers. I know! I help people settle in Berlin, and I don't know what to tell incoming students anymore. I'm not sure how they can find a place to live in a reasonable time frame. I hear that it's worse elsewhere, but it's no consolation.
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >I hear that it's worse elsewhere Out of curiosity where is it worse? What if it's like the "grass is greener" effect but in reverse, where people use the "it's worse elsewhere" argument to comfort themselves for their bad living conditions or other discomforts in life. I mean, I'm sure there are cities where it's worse, but like you said, that doesn't improve the situation for those wishing to live in Berlin so it's kinda pointless to look at places that are worse instead of fighting to improve the location you live in.
  - nicbou 4y ago
    I heard that it's the same or worse in other capitals. The message is not "it's not so bad", it's "housing is spiraling out of control in all major cities, what's the endgame?"

FlyingSnake 4y ago

Touché. Living in Berlin during the post Covid phase is a life saver.

netmonk 4y ago

Have you ever considered that public space, urbanisation are a proto form of nudging. If not, consider that the best minds in the 50 and 60 were considering subtle form of propaganda and manipalution by intelligent and adapted design of environment. Outside conscious detection, the human herd in urban envIronment are manipulated, nudged, and controlled the same way cattle are milked in modern factories. Those parks you seems to worship are just existing in your environment cause someone decided that you should worship those parks in your environment. The remaining question is: for what ? I would guess, happy and voluntary self alienation. Nobody question the paradoxal stupidity of feeling lonely in the most dense areas existing on the surface of earth. How can you feel lonely when you have more than a thousand peoples surrounding you in a range smaller than 100m away from you.

aspyct 4y ago
Dude, what? Parks are there so you can have a breather. There's no propaganda written on the trees, in the grass or in the sky. You know, happy healthy people are good for the economy. That's all.
spywaregorilla 4y ago
It's really quite impressive to equate access to nice parks to factory farming as a bad thing while also claiming that people must be socially sated because they live in densely packed areas.
nicbou 4y ago
I worship those parks because they're nice. I've lived in North American suburbs too. You'd have to drag me back there kicking and screaming. If a conspiracy is so nebulous that you can't define it's motives, perhaps you're grasping at straws.
netmonk 4y ago
the level of naive is quite fabulous. being downvoted by moron is a rare pleasure.