5 ms·

kicking the can down the road and making it someone else's problem.

junofan 4y ago
These people are not idiots. They know exactly what they can get away with.
zamalek 4y ago
That's a straw man. Nobody is saying that you tear their tents down and leave them to the elements. You provide housing, and you don't give the mentally incapacitated a choice about where they live; at least until they recover. What you're suggesting is to do nothing at all, which achieves exactly what is going on right now.
- eropple 4y ago
  Anecdotally, most of the folks I hear espousing this viewpoint in the Bay Area are not big on the "provide housing" part of this--more of a "begone from our sight" sort of thing. It's good to see some recognition that providing alternatives is a major step towards a real solution.
  - Tiktaalik 4y ago
    same. I very often hear a call to end tent encampments. I very rarely hear any sort of thought out policy on how to end homelessness.
    - hotpotamus 4y ago
      Dickens had the solution figured out nearly two centuries ago: > "Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are "in want of common comforts, sir.” > “Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge. > “Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. > “And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?” > “They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.” > “The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge. > “Both very busy, sir.” > “Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”
- TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
  > Nobody is saying that you tear their tents down and leave them to the elements. This is in fact the most commonly adopted practice for “dealing with” homeless people in places like the United States: violently destroying their homes and property at regular intervals, so that they are out of sight and therefore out of mind of people without empathy.
- Auracle 4y ago
  I’ll say it. Obviously some people with severe mental illness will need support the rest of their lives, but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? The only way they’re going to stop is if they hit rock bottom. If you’re enabling their behavior that’s never going to happen. And yeah, it’d be rough for them and some will die, but that will cause some others to never go down that road.
  - yellowapple 4y ago
    > but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? You've got it backwards: they're getting high all day because they're homeless and doing what little they can to cope with the insane amounts of stress that entails. Once you recognize that inverted causality, the solution becomes obvious: provide them with housing and help them back onto their feet.
    - Jarwain 4y ago
      I think both of y'all are right in different circumstances; imo a good policy would handle both cases
    - keneda7 4y ago
      So you claim the solution is something that has already been done. SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. Yet with your so called obvious solution the problem has gotten worse.
      - HappySweeney 4y ago
        A hotel room is not a home.
        keneda7 4y ago
        No its not. However a hotel room allows them a place to stay and clean while they look for a job and get on their feet. Once they have a job, they can look for a home. Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. As far as affordable housing, the issue in SF is created and continued by its own residents. They deserve a big part of the blame. If they want to fix it, vote in people that actually allow some damn affordable housing to be built. They all say they want to fix it, as long as its not fixed by putting affordable housing around them.
rasz 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_End_Drive-In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_End_Drive-In Salton Sea Slab City is ripe for development. Cancel/ban all free Methadone clinics from SF, setup one in Slab City with a condition of wearing user tracing bracelets and not moving more than 20-40 miles away and you have something going there.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- britch 4y ago
  Is this a joke or are you seriously advocating for setting up a concentration camp?
  - rasz 4y ago
    This problem largely didnt exist 60 years ago because mentally troubled people were institutionalized https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-menta... You can either setup incentives pulling those people away from population centers (free food, drugs, shelter) or bring back Mental Hospitals and forcefully incarcerate. What LA/SF seem to be doing now is ... providing free food/drugs/shelter and protection in downtown and wondering why regular citizens complain. Something has to give, the worse it slowly gets the more drastic snap overreaction when things flip and someone radical gets in power.
- c22 4y ago
  Why not move the tech bros to Slab City and let the homeless have SF? At least the tech bros can set up air conditioning.

These people are not idiots. They know exactly what they can get away with.

That's a straw man. Nobody is saying that you tear their tents down and leave them to the elements. You provide housing, and you don't give the mentally incapacitated a choice about where they live; at least until they recover. What you're suggesting is to do nothing at all, which achieves exactly what is going on right now.

eropple 4y ago
Anecdotally, most of the folks I hear espousing this viewpoint in the Bay Area are not big on the "provide housing" part of this--more of a "begone from our sight" sort of thing. It's good to see some recognition that providing alternatives is a major step towards a real solution.
- Tiktaalik 4y ago
  same. I very often hear a call to end tent encampments. I very rarely hear any sort of thought out policy on how to end homelessness.
  - hotpotamus 4y ago
    Dickens had the solution figured out nearly two centuries ago: > "Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are "in want of common comforts, sir.” > “Are there no prisons?” asked Scrooge. > “Plenty of prisons,” said the gentleman, laying down the pen again. > “And the Union workhouses?” demanded Scrooge. “Are they still in operation?” > “They are. Still,” returned the gentleman, “I wish I could say they were not.” > “The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?” said Scrooge. > “Both very busy, sir.” > “Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,” said Scrooge. “I’m very glad to hear it.”
TazeTSchnitzel 4y ago
> Nobody is saying that you tear their tents down and leave them to the elements. This is in fact the most commonly adopted practice for “dealing with” homeless people in places like the United States: violently destroying their homes and property at regular intervals, so that they are out of sight and therefore out of mind of people without empathy.
Auracle 4y ago
I’ll say it. Obviously some people with severe mental illness will need support the rest of their lives, but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? The only way they’re going to stop is if they hit rock bottom. If you’re enabling their behavior that’s never going to happen. And yeah, it’d be rough for them and some will die, but that will cause some others to never go down that road.
- yellowapple 4y ago
  > but the people that are homeless because they’re addicted to getting high all day? You've got it backwards: they're getting high all day because they're homeless and doing what little they can to cope with the insane amounts of stress that entails. Once you recognize that inverted causality, the solution becomes obvious: provide them with housing and help them back onto their feet.
  - Jarwain 4y ago
    I think both of y'all are right in different circumstances; imo a good policy would handle both cases
  - keneda7 4y ago
    So you claim the solution is something that has already been done. SF uses millions to house homeless in hotels. They also have tens of millions dedicated to programs to help educate, find jobs, and get people off of drugs. Yet with your so called obvious solution the problem has gotten worse.
    - HappySweeney 4y ago
      A hotel room is not a home.
      - keneda7 4y ago
        No its not. However a hotel room allows them a place to stay and clean while they look for a job and get on their feet. Once they have a job, they can look for a home. Seems to me you expect all the working people to just pony up money and pay for all the homeless peoples housing. A lot of people are renting their home and can barely afford to scrape by. They cannot afford to pay for someone else's housing as well. You want to screw these people who are trying to contribute to society. I am not okay with that. As far as affordable housing, the issue in SF is created and continued by its own residents. They deserve a big part of the blame. If they want to fix it, vote in people that actually allow some damn affordable housing to be built. They all say they want to fix it, as long as its not fixed by putting affordable housing around them.

rasz 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_End_Drive-In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_End_Drive-In Salton Sea Slab City is ripe for development. Cancel/ban all free Methadone clinics from SF, setup one in Slab City with a condition of wearing user tracing bracelets and not moving more than 20-40 miles away and you have something going there.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
britch 4y ago
Is this a joke or are you seriously advocating for setting up a concentration camp?
- rasz 4y ago
  This problem largely didnt exist 60 years ago because mentally troubled people were institutionalized https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-mental-hospitals-contribute-to-homelessness-here https://www.kqed.org/news/11209729/did-the-emptying-of-menta... You can either setup incentives pulling those people away from population centers (free food, drugs, shelter) or bring back Mental Hospitals and forcefully incarcerate. What LA/SF seem to be doing now is ... providing free food/drugs/shelter and protection in downtown and wondering why regular citizens complain. Something has to give, the worse it slowly gets the more drastic snap overreaction when things flip and someone radical gets in power.
c22 4y ago
Why not move the tech bros to Slab City and let the homeless have SF? At least the tech bros can set up air conditioning.