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That Apple could do it doesn’t mean they will, and the article doesn’t present much actual evidence it will. In Apple long-running saga with Ads it’s always se

by hnbear 4y ago

That Apple could do it doesn’t mean they will, and the article doesn’t present much actual evidence it will. In Apple long-running saga with Ads it’s always seemed like Apple hates ads because it’s other companies content (and so priorities, aesthetic, and feel) jammed inside an Apple product. And Apple hates anything that ruins the Apple Experience :tm: Paying to be the first App Store entry is great, because it’s Apple showing off the normal Apple content (an app card) within a search list of app cards. But in an app that cuts to some cheap, ugly, non-Apple aesthetic ad - that’s pretty unappealing and ruins the Apple Experience. It’s tougher to craft that Apple type experience while also selling out. I think they’re also aware of the implicit value to their business of being the non-Ad driven eco-system. It’s all part of being premium. Selling to the users who also pay for Netflix premium, Hulu ad-free, etc. It’s built into their business model. In some ways it’s been like that for years - PC laptops come coated in ads from the Intel Inside stickers and pre-installed crapwear, to the design and logos on the product boxes themselves. I’m reminded of this: https://youtu.be/EUXnJraKM3k https://youtu.be/EUXnJraKM3k I think Apple sorta, maybe wants Ads because it’s so lucrative, but also recognizes those challenges are real, and tough, and destroy their brand quickly.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
They have a turnkey plan b for the next CEO or if they have a bad quarter or two. You better believe they'll use it if they need to show growth.
jonas21 4y ago
> Paying to be the first App Store entry is great, because it’s Apple showing off the normal Apple content (an app card) within a search list of app cards. The most lucrative ad-supported site in the world (Google search) also shows normal-looking paid content at the top of a list of search results. Apple doesn't need to accept ugly banner ads to build an enormous ad business.
- ipsum2 4y ago
  It's so normal-looking, its hard to tell the difference between paid and regular content!
  - nullwarp 4y ago
    Whenever I go actually have to install an app from the apple store I really really have to pay attention to figure out what is an ad and what is what I actually want. Yeah it says it's an ad one it but it shows up first and the "it's an ad" warning feels deceptively subdued.
Apocryphon 4y ago
There are embedded ads in Xcode now: https://twitter.com/niw/status/1577955010167508992 https://twitter.com/niw/status/1577955010167508992 Now granted, it’s to upsell a service that’s integrated with the product you’re using, but it goes to show Apple products no longer simply sell themselves without intrusive ads.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  I always immediately dismiss these headlines because people lump feature highlights in the same category as 3rd party banner ads. It reminds me of the /g/ trend of calling everything from crash reporting to automatic updates a botnet.
- prvit 4y ago
  > but it goes to show Apple products no longer simply sell themselves without intrusive ads. Is that ad really more intrusive than all the TV ads Apple has run over the years?
  - Apocryphon 4y ago
    Those, and the iOS settings embedded ads, and the News+ notifications are also intrusive and irritating. I don’t even think it’s indicative of Apple products slipping in quality. I think they’re just so services oriented these days product discoverability is difficult, but also modern Apple has no shame marketing from within.
tpush 4y ago
Counterpoint: The Apple News app. Even of you're a paying($10!) subscriber, the app is full of absolutely awful advertisement. The current culture of Apple produced this app; it wouldn't surprise me if other properties of Apple start to embed ads.
- hnbear 4y ago
  Interesting, thank you. News is one of the apps I never use, sticking to NetNewsWire+Feedly. I'd hope that ends up in the category of "tried it, failed, phase it out/down", but maybe not. I especially hate ads in paid-for subscriptions.
- tehnub 4y ago
  Yeah, for some reason the ads in Apple News are particularly awful. I do have ad personalization turned off, but that doesn’t explain seeing the same large, irrelevant, and strange ad plastered between every two or three paragraphs.
- smogcutter 4y ago
  Having once worked at a publisher (although in IT not ad sales or product, so call it “adjacent” rather than inside baseball), I’m certain this is about negotiating with publishers rather than apple’s own priorities. A platform like Apple News does very little to redirect traffic back to the home page where you show the big 1st party ads that actually bankroll the org. Users stay in the app. From a publishers pov it’s really unattractive unless you can show ads.
  - mcculley 4y ago
    Have publishers even considered selling a subscription without ads? I realize it would cost more. I would really like to subscribe to a newspaper that has readers as its only customers.
    - Firmwarrior 4y ago
      I think the closest anyone comes to that is substack You can subscribe to all the publications out there, but it's the same worthless clickbait drivel whether you're paying or not
1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago
It appears the parent comment is engaged in the same activity as the OP author: speculation. No evidence is presented that Apple will not continue to engage in more advertising. Here is some "evidence" that Apple will increase the amount of advertising. FWIW, MacRumors states that Gurman's predictions are usually accurate. https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/10/22/apple-will-show-more-app-store-ads-from-oct-25 https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/10/22/apple-will-show-m... https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/14/apple-plans-offering-more-advertising-to-users-via-apps https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/14/apple-plans-offer... https://www.macrumors.com/guide/mark-gurman https://www.macrumors.com/guide/mark-gurman Personally I found the patent applications Apple filed back in 2009/2010 claiming tactics for putting advertising into the operating system (one of which I believe is mentioned in the article) to be a signal that the company has no philosophical opposition to placing unavoidable advertising on people's personal computers. What other explanation is there for filing such applications. Perhaps they had plans to block others from using certain advertising tactics. Yeah, right. "It's tougher to craft that Apple type experience while also selling out." When I first purchased an Apple computer there were no "advertising services". Maybe different Apple customers have different definitions of the "Apple type experience". Who knows. Some might think Apple already "sold out" years ago. Today's Apple computers come with Apple's "advertising platform", and "advertising services" are part of the "Services" line item in Apple's quarterly and annual revenue reporting. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000032019322000070/aapl-20220625.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/0000320193220...
kornhole 4y ago
In that calculation of how much non subtle ads they can push will be how much it will take to actually drive people to leave and rewire some deep circuitry. I know I am generalizing, but Apple users are quite captured and often unable to switch to anything without strong resolve and help.

by hnbear 4y ago

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

They have a turnkey plan b for the next CEO or if they have a bad quarter or two. You better believe they'll use it if they need to show growth.

jonas21 4y ago

> Paying to be the first App Store entry is great, because it’s Apple showing off the normal Apple content (an app card) within a search list of app cards. The most lucrative ad-supported site in the world (Google search) also shows normal-looking paid content at the top of a list of search results. Apple doesn't need to accept ugly banner ads to build an enormous ad business.

ipsum2 4y ago
It's so normal-looking, its hard to tell the difference between paid and regular content!
- nullwarp 4y ago
  Whenever I go actually have to install an app from the apple store I really really have to pay attention to figure out what is an ad and what is what I actually want. Yeah it says it's an ad one it but it shows up first and the "it's an ad" warning feels deceptively subdued.

Apocryphon 4y ago

There are embedded ads in Xcode now: https://twitter.com/niw/status/1577955010167508992 https://twitter.com/niw/status/1577955010167508992 Now granted, it’s to upsell a service that’s integrated with the product you’re using, but it goes to show Apple products no longer simply sell themselves without intrusive ads.

Gigachad 4y ago
I always immediately dismiss these headlines because people lump feature highlights in the same category as 3rd party banner ads. It reminds me of the /g/ trend of calling everything from crash reporting to automatic updates a botnet.
prvit 4y ago
> but it goes to show Apple products no longer simply sell themselves without intrusive ads. Is that ad really more intrusive than all the TV ads Apple has run over the years?
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  Those, and the iOS settings embedded ads, and the News+ notifications are also intrusive and irritating. I don’t even think it’s indicative of Apple products slipping in quality. I think they’re just so services oriented these days product discoverability is difficult, but also modern Apple has no shame marketing from within.

tpush 4y ago

Counterpoint: The Apple News app. Even of you're a paying($10!) subscriber, the app is full of absolutely awful advertisement. The current culture of Apple produced this app; it wouldn't surprise me if other properties of Apple start to embed ads.

hnbear 4y ago
Interesting, thank you. News is one of the apps I never use, sticking to NetNewsWire+Feedly. I'd hope that ends up in the category of "tried it, failed, phase it out/down", but maybe not. I especially hate ads in paid-for subscriptions.
tehnub 4y ago
Yeah, for some reason the ads in Apple News are particularly awful. I do have ad personalization turned off, but that doesn’t explain seeing the same large, irrelevant, and strange ad plastered between every two or three paragraphs.
smogcutter 4y ago
Having once worked at a publisher (although in IT not ad sales or product, so call it “adjacent” rather than inside baseball), I’m certain this is about negotiating with publishers rather than apple’s own priorities. A platform like Apple News does very little to redirect traffic back to the home page where you show the big 1st party ads that actually bankroll the org. Users stay in the app. From a publishers pov it’s really unattractive unless you can show ads.
- mcculley 4y ago
  Have publishers even considered selling a subscription without ads? I realize it would cost more. I would really like to subscribe to a newspaper that has readers as its only customers.
  - Firmwarrior 4y ago
    I think the closest anyone comes to that is substack You can subscribe to all the publications out there, but it's the same worthless clickbait drivel whether you're paying or not

1vuio0pswjnm7 4y ago

It appears the parent comment is engaged in the same activity as the OP author: speculation. No evidence is presented that Apple will not continue to engage in more advertising. Here is some "evidence" that Apple will increase the amount of advertising. FWIW, MacRumors states that Gurman's predictions are usually accurate. https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/10/22/apple-will-show-more-app-store-ads-from-oct-25 https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/10/22/apple-will-show-m... https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/14/apple-plans-offering-more-advertising-to-users-via-apps https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/08/14/apple-plans-offer... https://www.macrumors.com/guide/mark-gurman https://www.macrumors.com/guide/mark-gurman Personally I found the patent applications Apple filed back in 2009/2010 claiming tactics for putting advertising into the operating system (one of which I believe is mentioned in the article) to be a signal that the company has no philosophical opposition to placing unavoidable advertising on people's personal computers. What other explanation is there for filing such applications. Perhaps they had plans to block others from using certain advertising tactics. Yeah, right. "It's tougher to craft that Apple type experience while also selling out." When I first purchased an Apple computer there were no "advertising services". Maybe different Apple customers have different definitions of the "Apple type experience". Who knows. Some might think Apple already "sold out" years ago. Today's Apple computers come with Apple's "advertising platform", and "advertising services" are part of the "Services" line item in Apple's quarterly and annual revenue reporting. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/000032019322000070/aapl-20220625.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/320193/0000320193220...

kornhole 4y ago

In that calculation of how much non subtle ads they can push will be how much it will take to actually drive people to leave and rewire some deep circuitry. I know I am generalizing, but Apple users are quite captured and often unable to switch to anything without strong resolve and help.