3 ms·

It’s an expression. Russians even take it further, ‘defenestration’! I assume from the story those are the angry fellows charges not our hero protagonist. One

It’s an expression. Russians even take it further, ‘defenestration’! I assume from the story those are the angry fellows charges not our hero protagonist. One can not punch a person and not expect retaliation, even if that person you perceive to be a social inferior to you doing retail work. Funny you took the complete opposite way that the clerk got in trouble.

Huh1337 4y ago
Defenestration is a Czech expression (the Czech language works with Latin roots a lot, even has special grammar for it). Russians only adopted it.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  Defenestration is a term coined to describe a political event in Prague but I'm not sure the word itself is Czech but is arguably French, Latin or English in origin. > Though already existing in Middle French, the word defenestrate ("out of the window") is believed to have first been used in English in reference to the episodes in Prague in 1618 when the disgruntled Protestant estates threw two royal governors out of a window of the Hradčany Castle and wrote an extensive apologia explaining their action. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague But that article has no citations for that claim...
  - Huh1337 4y ago
    Well I guess it depends on how you attribute words to languages. In Czech language it's standard practice to compose words with Latin stems. The word was originally written by a Czech person in a Czech language text using specialized Czech grammar for integration of Latin stems. The prefix de- is used in Czech normally since forever and to this day (originally Latin though), the stem fenestra is Latin (not normally used in Czech), and the suffix -ace is Czech (Slavic origin). BTW the quote you posted says the first usage in English language was in reference to the Czech text which actually coined it (thus the English text adopted it), not that it's English in origin.
    - The_Colonel 4y ago
      > The prefix de- is used in Czech normally since forever and to this day It's only used in loan words. Like "depilace" is a normally used loanword in Czech, non-loan word variant would be "odchlupeni". But "dechlupeni" (using "de-" instead of "od-" + native Czech word) would be completely nonsensical. Claiming that "defenestrace" is originally a Czech word seems absurd to me. It might have been "invented" in Czech lands, but clearly from the latin form.
      - Huh1337 4y ago
        Hmm, a lot of Czech words aren't actually Czech, then. I think that makes even less sense. The fact is the Czech language loans heavily from many different languages (Latin being one of the top donors) - but that doesn't mean we speak a mix of languages in one sentence. The prefix de- is not used only in loanwords, you can construct new words with it just fine. It doesn't sound right in your example but that doesn't mean it's nonsense.
        The_Colonel 4y ago
        "defenestrace" is a Czech word, "defenestration" is an English word, but they can both trace their origin to the latin "defenestratio". > The prefix de- is not used only in loanwords, you can construct new words with it just fine. Listing some examples would strengthen your argument immensely. > It doesn't sound right in your example but that doesn't mean it's nonsense. To my native ear, it sounds nonsensical. I wouldn't be able to guess what it is supposed to mean.
        Huh1337 4y ago
        Defenestratio is not a Latin word, you wouldn't describe the act like that as a Latin speaker. You'd say something involving the words "de fenestra", but definitely not as one word. It was the Czech person who first combined the Czech/Latin prefix, the Latin stem and the Czech/Slavic suffix in a decidedly Czech sentence. > Listing some examples would strengthen your argument immensely. You said one yourself. Nobody would say it because there's already a better way to say that, but everybody would understand the meaning and the grammar is fine.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  its a czech practice with few town-hall people in Prague few centuries ago IIRC, not a czech word per se
- Rebelgecko 4y ago
  I think the Czech term is "Defenestrace"
  - DavidSJ 4y ago
    Is that related to strace? Or maybe dtrace.
throwayyy479087 4y ago
Defenestration and defenéstrate are words in English and Spanish as well. It’s a common concept
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  Not to be mistaken with transfenestration which is something you do yearly to prove you are still insane and keep getting your check.
  - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
    HN doesn’t get Pynchon references. Interesting.
scarface74 4y ago
Defenestration is an old term in tech circles which meant just the opposite - throw Windows out of your computer
jodrellblank 4y ago
Wouldn’t the Russian way be more ‘defenestrecution’?

Huh1337 4y ago

Defenestration is a Czech expression (the Czech language works with Latin roots a lot, even has special grammar for it). Russians only adopted it.

shkkmo 4y ago
Defenestration is a term coined to describe a political event in Prague but I'm not sure the word itself is Czech but is arguably French, Latin or English in origin. > Though already existing in Middle French, the word defenestrate ("out of the window") is believed to have first been used in English in reference to the episodes in Prague in 1618 when the disgruntled Protestant estates threw two royal governors out of a window of the Hradčany Castle and wrote an extensive apologia explaining their action. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defenestrations_of_Prague But that article has no citations for that claim...
- Huh1337 4y ago
  Well I guess it depends on how you attribute words to languages. In Czech language it's standard practice to compose words with Latin stems. The word was originally written by a Czech person in a Czech language text using specialized Czech grammar for integration of Latin stems. The prefix de- is used in Czech normally since forever and to this day (originally Latin though), the stem fenestra is Latin (not normally used in Czech), and the suffix -ace is Czech (Slavic origin). BTW the quote you posted says the first usage in English language was in reference to the Czech text which actually coined it (thus the English text adopted it), not that it's English in origin.
  - The_Colonel 4y ago
    > The prefix de- is used in Czech normally since forever and to this day It's only used in loan words. Like "depilace" is a normally used loanword in Czech, non-loan word variant would be "odchlupeni". But "dechlupeni" (using "de-" instead of "od-" + native Czech word) would be completely nonsensical. Claiming that "defenestrace" is originally a Czech word seems absurd to me. It might have been "invented" in Czech lands, but clearly from the latin form.
    - Huh1337 4y ago
      Hmm, a lot of Czech words aren't actually Czech, then. I think that makes even less sense. The fact is the Czech language loans heavily from many different languages (Latin being one of the top donors) - but that doesn't mean we speak a mix of languages in one sentence. The prefix de- is not used only in loanwords, you can construct new words with it just fine. It doesn't sound right in your example but that doesn't mean it's nonsense.
      - The_Colonel 4y ago
        "defenestrace" is a Czech word, "defenestration" is an English word, but they can both trace their origin to the latin "defenestratio". > The prefix de- is not used only in loanwords, you can construct new words with it just fine. Listing some examples would strengthen your argument immensely. > It doesn't sound right in your example but that doesn't mean it's nonsense. To my native ear, it sounds nonsensical. I wouldn't be able to guess what it is supposed to mean.
        Huh1337 4y ago
        Defenestratio is not a Latin word, you wouldn't describe the act like that as a Latin speaker. You'd say something involving the words "de fenestra", but definitely not as one word. It was the Czech person who first combined the Czech/Latin prefix, the Latin stem and the Czech/Slavic suffix in a decidedly Czech sentence. > Listing some examples would strengthen your argument immensely. You said one yourself. Nobody would say it because there's already a better way to say that, but everybody would understand the meaning and the grammar is fine.
saiya-jin 4y ago
its a czech practice with few town-hall people in Prague few centuries ago IIRC, not a czech word per se
Rebelgecko 4y ago
I think the Czech term is "Defenestrace"
- DavidSJ 4y ago
  Is that related to strace? Or maybe dtrace.

throwayyy479087 4y ago

Defenestration and defenéstrate are words in English and Spanish as well. It’s a common concept

WastingMyTime89 4y ago
Not to be mistaken with transfenestration which is something you do yearly to prove you are still insane and keep getting your check.
- WastingMyTime89 4y ago
  HN doesn’t get Pynchon references. Interesting.

scarface74 4y ago

Defenestration is an old term in tech circles which meant just the opposite - throw Windows out of your computer

jodrellblank 4y ago

Wouldn’t the Russian way be more ‘defenestrecution’?