4 ms·

Thanks for you perspective from close up. I hope your predictions are correct. > It's not entirely up to the United States For sure, and I realize we're not t

by thunky 4y ago

Thanks for you perspective from close up. I hope your predictions are correct. > It's not entirely up to the United States For sure, and I realize we're not the only ones helping. Just noticing this sortof equilibrium "tug of war" state that our colletive help is maybe supporting. > Personally I don't think this is an intentional choice, so much as concerns with political fallout. Midterm elections are soon. I tend to view these blue vs red political games as a form of public distraction while the real stuff happens in private. I would also guess that Ukraine is not a top issue for voters when compared to domestic issues, and any signaling by republicans to reduce aid is mainly a cheap way to gain votes when they don't really mean it. We'll see I guess.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
No, you should not discount three important factors that alter how the Republicans and other similar forces around the world see this situation, and consider that they actually have powerful internal interests that act, effectively, pro-Putin. 1. Russia is a powerful petro-energy exporter state. Energy industry remains the cornerstone and engine of the global capitalist market. Worldwide profits are underwritten by it. 2. Major limitation or inaccessibility of Russian energy undermines profitability worldwide. The American energy sector might see Russia as competition, but it's also not that clear. There's fear of the regulation and disruption of the energy economy that this war (and climate change policies as well) have brought. 3. Russia is a conservative, effectively far right state whose ideological foundations accord with GOP foundations: Little separation between church and state & conservative social values. In Russia, as in the United State, feminism/abortion rights, gay rights, trans rights etc are framed as "western decadence/western decay" by Putinists. A similar focus is taking by Trumpists, Bolsanaro, etc. TLDR there's harmony in interests between the GOP and forces in Russia; on both cultural / ideological issues and on economic interests. It's complicated, certainly, but there are strong forces in the Republican party and in the far right in Europe that are implicity, if not explicitly, either pro-Putin, or very interested in "settling" this conflict in a way that gives Putin most of what he wants. (Mr. Wanna-be Howard Roark - Tony Stark or whatever Musk is mouthing the latter line now)
- thunky 4y ago
  Yes, and at the same time Democrats have been pounding the table to be "tough on Putin" for several years now. Then the Ukraine conflict started while they were in power and they have been...not that tough. I agree there is much more going on under the table that actually determines our foreign policy implementation. I'm not so sure that D vs R matters much at all, though. Your points #1 and #2 (energy strategy) are probably important to both teams, not just Rs. And I'm not sure #3 (ideology) is truly a motivating factor for either team when it comes down to it. If it really mattered then we'd have a much different relationship with Saudi Arabia and many others right now.

by thunky 4y ago

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

No, you should not discount three important factors that alter how the Republicans and other similar forces around the world see this situation, and consider that they actually have powerful internal interests that act, effectively, pro-Putin. 1. Russia is a powerful petro-energy exporter state. Energy industry remains the cornerstone and engine of the global capitalist market. Worldwide profits are underwritten by it. 2. Major limitation or inaccessibility of Russian energy undermines profitability worldwide. The American energy sector might see Russia as competition, but it's also not that clear. There's fear of the regulation and disruption of the energy economy that this war (and climate change policies as well) have brought. 3. Russia is a conservative, effectively far right state whose ideological foundations accord with GOP foundations: Little separation between church and state & conservative social values. In Russia, as in the United State, feminism/abortion rights, gay rights, trans rights etc are framed as "western decadence/western decay" by Putinists. A similar focus is taking by Trumpists, Bolsanaro, etc. TLDR there's harmony in interests between the GOP and forces in Russia; on both cultural / ideological issues and on economic interests. It's complicated, certainly, but there are strong forces in the Republican party and in the far right in Europe that are implicity, if not explicitly, either pro-Putin, or very interested in "settling" this conflict in a way that gives Putin most of what he wants. (Mr. Wanna-be Howard Roark - Tony Stark or whatever Musk is mouthing the latter line now)

thunky 4y ago
Yes, and at the same time Democrats have been pounding the table to be "tough on Putin" for several years now. Then the Ukraine conflict started while they were in power and they have been...not that tough. I agree there is much more going on under the table that actually determines our foreign policy implementation. I'm not so sure that D vs R matters much at all, though. Your points #1 and #2 (energy strategy) are probably important to both teams, not just Rs. And I'm not sure #3 (ideology) is truly a motivating factor for either team when it comes down to it. If it really mattered then we'd have a much different relationship with Saudi Arabia and many others right now.