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> it would probably kickstart a "build your own vaccine kit" industry. This is a scenario for a dystopian science fiction novel, as opposed to a a rational pl

> it would probably kickstart a "build your own vaccine kit" industry. This is a scenario for a dystopian science fiction novel, as opposed to a a rational plan for our children's future.

b112 4y ago
Tell someone from 1950 about modern cell phones, tracking in them and online, tracking in car ECUs, tracking all purchases, with companies listening in on everything said at home, and that's their dystopian novel!
- Bakary 4y ago
  It's also a dystopia according to our current sensibilities. Or at least for a plurality of people. Even the people who don't seem to care tend to react adversely once they understand how it can affect them.
- mannykannot 4y ago
  We have seen your scenario, and we have also had, in the last three years, a taste of brigandish's scenario, so I feel people can make up their own minds about whether they are usefully comparable. And if you do think they are comparable, note that the equivalent of a "build-your-own vaccine kit" in your scenario has not materially improved the situation (right now, "Google Has Most of My Email Because It Has All of Yours" is at position 8 on the HN front page.)
brigandish 4y ago
One of the co-founders of BioNTech had this to say[1]: > “What we have developed over decades for cancer vaccine development has been the tailwind for developing the COVID-19 vaccine, and now the Covid-19 vaccine and our experience in developing it gives back to our cancer work,” Tureci said. [1] https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/covid-vax-makers-say-cancer-vaccine-could-be-available-by-2030/ https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/covid-vax-makers-say-cancer-va...
- mannykannot 4y ago
  This is beside the point in the context of your reply to mckirk. Even the most vigorous supporters of 'gain-of-function' research are not proposing that the resulting pathogens should be be released into the wild in order to promote medical research.
  - brigandish 4y ago
    Nowhere did I write or imply that there was intent in the causation. You get a gun, I might buy a gun, that does not imply that your intent was for me to buy a gun. Do you think the advances in medical techniques for treating gun wounds was the intent of gangbangers when they shoot each other?
    - mannykannot 4y ago
      I am at a loss to see how this could be a pertinent reply, but let me make something clear: my 'gain-of-function' comment is intended to show that your "it would probably kickstart a 'build your own vaccine kit' industry" is not a useful response to mckirk's scenario, even in the unlikely event that this would actually happen. The fact that no-one in their right mind would suggest releasing enhanced viruses into the wild as a means to foster medical development shows that the countervailing consequence you suggest will occur does not work as a response to mckirk's concern.
      - brigandish 4y ago
        > pathogens should be be released into the wild in order to promote medical research Do A in order to promote B requires intention. It doesn't matter that no one is doing that because it's a straw man, as I'm not arguing it either. What I am saying is: If A then B will occur (probably and with increasing likelihood). Quite different.
        mannykannot 4y ago
        My replies to you do not depend on or imply that you proposed any course of action, or that anyone else has actually done so, either. You have quoted me out of context in order to give the impression that I have.

> it would probably kickstart a "build your own vaccine kit" industry. This is a scenario for a dystopian science fiction novel, as opposed to a a rational plan for our children's future.

b112 4y ago

Tell someone from 1950 about modern cell phones, tracking in them and online, tracking in car ECUs, tracking all purchases, with companies listening in on everything said at home, and that's their dystopian novel!

Bakary 4y ago
It's also a dystopia according to our current sensibilities. Or at least for a plurality of people. Even the people who don't seem to care tend to react adversely once they understand how it can affect them.
mannykannot 4y ago
We have seen your scenario, and we have also had, in the last three years, a taste of brigandish's scenario, so I feel people can make up their own minds about whether they are usefully comparable. And if you do think they are comparable, note that the equivalent of a "build-your-own vaccine kit" in your scenario has not materially improved the situation (right now, "Google Has Most of My Email Because It Has All of Yours" is at position 8 on the HN front page.)

brigandish 4y ago

One of the co-founders of BioNTech had this to say[1]: > “What we have developed over decades for cancer vaccine development has been the tailwind for developing the COVID-19 vaccine, and now the Covid-19 vaccine and our experience in developing it gives back to our cancer work,” Tureci said. [1] https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/covid-vax-makers-say-cancer-vaccine-could-be-available-by-2030/ https://nypost.com/2022/10/19/covid-vax-makers-say-cancer-va...

mannykannot 4y ago
This is beside the point in the context of your reply to mckirk. Even the most vigorous supporters of 'gain-of-function' research are not proposing that the resulting pathogens should be be released into the wild in order to promote medical research.
- brigandish 4y ago
  Nowhere did I write or imply that there was intent in the causation. You get a gun, I might buy a gun, that does not imply that your intent was for me to buy a gun. Do you think the advances in medical techniques for treating gun wounds was the intent of gangbangers when they shoot each other?
  - mannykannot 4y ago
    I am at a loss to see how this could be a pertinent reply, but let me make something clear: my 'gain-of-function' comment is intended to show that your "it would probably kickstart a 'build your own vaccine kit' industry" is not a useful response to mckirk's scenario, even in the unlikely event that this would actually happen. The fact that no-one in their right mind would suggest releasing enhanced viruses into the wild as a means to foster medical development shows that the countervailing consequence you suggest will occur does not work as a response to mckirk's concern.
    - brigandish 4y ago
      > pathogens should be be released into the wild in order to promote medical research Do A in order to promote B requires intention. It doesn't matter that no one is doing that because it's a straw man, as I'm not arguing it either. What I am saying is: If A then B will occur (probably and with increasing likelihood). Quite different.
      - mannykannot 4y ago
        My replies to you do not depend on or imply that you proposed any course of action, or that anyone else has actually done so, either. You have quoted me out of context in order to give the impression that I have.