5 ms·

I'd recommend giving Kagi a try. I've been using it for 4 months now as my default search engine, and it's excellent.

by bunnyfoofoo 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
calculated 4y ago
Used it but as a student paying $10 for a search engine isn't possible.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Yeah here in Europe that is a lot of money. In Silicon valley it's pocket change but here it's not.
  - calculated 4y ago
    Yeah doesn't look sustainable
    - _abox 4y ago
      Yeah it surprises me that 10 euros seems to be the minimum for pretty much every online service now. For 10 euro you can get Netflix, Spotify. My Ring security subscription is also a tenner. Pretty much everything that has a subscription model targets 10 euro as a minimum. I don't really know why, all these tenners add up a lot. I'm even dropping Spotify now some months (especially because when I drop it, the next month they offer me 3 months for a tenner to come back, which I find a lot more reasonable as I don't use it much). Kagi does really sound like it is easier to provide and should not cost as much. It feels like they are expecting super-heavy users. Their 50 free searches a month is not enough for me but I could probably do with 100 or 200. But there is no intermediate subscription, it's just 50 free or unlimited for a tenner.
      - calculated 4y ago
        I read that they calculate the subscription price based on average searches per user and something else. I see the main problem which occurs here is that they're not large scale enough hence the unoptimized subscription cost. > They are expecting suepr heavy users. They probably should be as most of thier users would be tech savy which by itself means a lot of searching so probably pricing is right according to the maintenance costs.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  and it will keep increasing, they rely on other search engine's API so costs keep skyrocketing
- osigurdson 4y ago
  I read that the cost (to them) for Kagi to perform searches is on the order of $1 per 80 searches. This seems incredible to me. How could it possibly cost that much?
  - calculated 4y ago
    They're not big enough, that's why. They probably use a ton of third party services also.
RealStickman_ 4y ago
I can second the recommendation for Kagi. It's been working very well for me the past 2 months now.
dmm 4y ago
The Kagi founder believes only criminals need privacy: > I think that a class of people, who ask kind of questions that need absolute guarantee of anonymity (I am thinking terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers etc) are: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29844665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29844665 That's the main reason I haven't tried it.
- mlry 4y ago
  Thank you for this heads up. I stumbled across Kagi a lot in recent months looking for better search results, but with this statement from the founder the case is settled.
- danpalmer 4y ago
  Unless I’m mistaken that’s literally the opposite of what he’s saying? He says: there are a class of people, criminals, who need x/y/z properties of a search engine… and that’s not what we provide. He makes the difference between Privacy (which Kagi apparently provides) and true anonymity (which appears to be out of scope for them). Sounds a lot like DDG vs, say, Tor. The former is very privacy conscious, the latter is attempting to be provably anonymous to a level sufficient for life-or-death personal safety.
  - dmm 4y ago
    He setting up a strawman: only criminals(specifically terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers) would care more about privacy than what their vague promises provide. There are endless scenarios where a person may not want their searches being individually identifiable where they aren't a terrorists, drug dealers or trafficker. Imagine the scenario where 13 US states banned women eating Fuji apples and a new administration takes over and is really motivated to enforce that ban. Kagi is absolutely able to report the identity of users who search for specific keywords, "mail order Fuji apples", etc. A malicious Kagi engineer could track someone's searches, for example as part of a campaign of stalking or harassment.
    - danpalmer 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
aliqot 4y ago
> I think that a class of people, who ask kind of questions that need absolute guarantee of anonymity (I am thinking terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers etc) Hard nope, that guy's trouble. He's not one of us.
- danpalmer 4y ago
  See my reply to the other comment here, but I’m pretty sure they aren’t condoning those things, and are suggesting that Kagi is unsuitable for those uses.
  - aliqot 4y ago
    No means no. This person made the terrible decision to compare those who desire privacy to criminals, and to that I say good day sir.
    - danpalmer 4y ago
      Again, that’s not what the comment said. He says those looking to use it for criminal purposes are not the target market, and he clarifies the level of privacy granted by the product, which is extensive. It sounds like you’ve misread, or at least misinterpreted, and I do agree the wording is a little clumsy. I’d urge you to re-read it without assuming intent and see what it actually says.
      - dalmo3 4y ago
        > He says those looking to use it for criminal purposes are not the target market Which is nothing but a strawman, given that the question was: > How would you solve the issue of self-censorship when the exact identity of a searcher is known? How is "we don't serve criminals" a valid answer to that?
ATMLOTTOBEER 4y ago
I used this exclusively for around a year and I’m back on google. I hope it’s improved since I stopped using it but I had trouble finding relevant blogs and stack overflow posts for the somewhat obscure language I use at work. Kagi does have a nice pdf filter though.

I'd recommend giving Kagi a try. I've been using it for 4 months now as my default search engine, and it's excellent.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

calculated 4y ago

Used it but as a student paying $10 for a search engine isn't possible.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Yeah here in Europe that is a lot of money. In Silicon valley it's pocket change but here it's not.
- calculated 4y ago
  Yeah doesn't look sustainable
  - _abox 4y ago
    Yeah it surprises me that 10 euros seems to be the minimum for pretty much every online service now. For 10 euro you can get Netflix, Spotify. My Ring security subscription is also a tenner. Pretty much everything that has a subscription model targets 10 euro as a minimum. I don't really know why, all these tenners add up a lot. I'm even dropping Spotify now some months (especially because when I drop it, the next month they offer me 3 months for a tenner to come back, which I find a lot more reasonable as I don't use it much). Kagi does really sound like it is easier to provide and should not cost as much. It feels like they are expecting super-heavy users. Their 50 free searches a month is not enough for me but I could probably do with 100 or 200. But there is no intermediate subscription, it's just 50 free or unlimited for a tenner.
    - calculated 4y ago
      I read that they calculate the subscription price based on average searches per user and something else. I see the main problem which occurs here is that they're not large scale enough hence the unoptimized subscription cost. > They are expecting suepr heavy users. They probably should be as most of thier users would be tech savy which by itself means a lot of searching so probably pricing is right according to the maintenance costs.
ekianjo 4y ago
and it will keep increasing, they rely on other search engine's API so costs keep skyrocketing
osigurdson 4y ago
I read that the cost (to them) for Kagi to perform searches is on the order of $1 per 80 searches. This seems incredible to me. How could it possibly cost that much?
- calculated 4y ago
  They're not big enough, that's why. They probably use a ton of third party services also.

RealStickman_ 4y ago

I can second the recommendation for Kagi. It's been working very well for me the past 2 months now.

dmm 4y ago

The Kagi founder believes only criminals need privacy: > I think that a class of people, who ask kind of questions that need absolute guarantee of anonymity (I am thinking terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers etc) are: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29844665 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29844665 That's the main reason I haven't tried it.

mlry 4y ago
Thank you for this heads up. I stumbled across Kagi a lot in recent months looking for better search results, but with this statement from the founder the case is settled.
danpalmer 4y ago
Unless I’m mistaken that’s literally the opposite of what he’s saying? He says: there are a class of people, criminals, who need x/y/z properties of a search engine… and that’s not what we provide. He makes the difference between Privacy (which Kagi apparently provides) and true anonymity (which appears to be out of scope for them). Sounds a lot like DDG vs, say, Tor. The former is very privacy conscious, the latter is attempting to be provably anonymous to a level sufficient for life-or-death personal safety.
- dmm 4y ago
  He setting up a strawman: only criminals(specifically terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers) would care more about privacy than what their vague promises provide. There are endless scenarios where a person may not want their searches being individually identifiable where they aren't a terrorists, drug dealers or trafficker. Imagine the scenario where 13 US states banned women eating Fuji apples and a new administration takes over and is really motivated to enforce that ban. Kagi is absolutely able to report the identity of users who search for specific keywords, "mail order Fuji apples", etc. A malicious Kagi engineer could track someone's searches, for example as part of a campaign of stalking or harassment.
  - danpalmer 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

aliqot 4y ago

> I think that a class of people, who ask kind of questions that need absolute guarantee of anonymity (I am thinking terrorists, drug dealers, traffickers etc) Hard nope, that guy's trouble. He's not one of us.

danpalmer 4y ago
See my reply to the other comment here, but I’m pretty sure they aren’t condoning those things, and are suggesting that Kagi is unsuitable for those uses.
- aliqot 4y ago
  No means no. This person made the terrible decision to compare those who desire privacy to criminals, and to that I say good day sir.
  - danpalmer 4y ago
    Again, that’s not what the comment said. He says those looking to use it for criminal purposes are not the target market, and he clarifies the level of privacy granted by the product, which is extensive. It sounds like you’ve misread, or at least misinterpreted, and I do agree the wording is a little clumsy. I’d urge you to re-read it without assuming intent and see what it actually says.
    - dalmo3 4y ago
      > He says those looking to use it for criminal purposes are not the target market Which is nothing but a strawman, given that the question was: > How would you solve the issue of self-censorship when the exact identity of a searcher is known? How is "we don't serve criminals" a valid answer to that?

ATMLOTTOBEER 4y ago

I used this exclusively for around a year and I’m back on google. I hope it’s improved since I stopped using it but I had trouble finding relevant blogs and stack overflow posts for the somewhat obscure language I use at work. Kagi does have a nice pdf filter though.