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My man, if you were poor and had a lot of free time, someone in your life was being a great person to keep you from that effect of poverty. Not all of us were

My man, if you were poor and had a lot of free time, someone in your life was being a great person to keep you from that effect of poverty. Not all of us were so lucky.

BobbyJo 4y ago
Again, I'm not saying my experience is universal, just common among myself and my poor friends and cousins. Time seems to me to be the most equitably distributed resource, but I'd love a counter argument that was more than vague disagreement.
- matai_kolila 4y ago
  Only on the Internet would someone demand a “counterargument” to support the super basic statement “your life experience wasn’t universal amongst poor people”… Fine [0][1][2][3]. Keep in mind this isn’t some “1+1=2” problem, and people have dedicated their lives to figuring this out, so if you’re looking for a “conclusion” then I don’t recommend human psychology. Let me know if you have any questions, but honestly I’m wary of an attempted trolling on your part so please come honestly and with curiosity. Also this is not my area of expertise, and you’ll likely get a better understanding of this very complex issue if you look into this on your own. At best I can be (and frankly am only interested in being) a starting point. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/03/the-most-powerful-thing-we-could-give-poor-kids-is-completely-free/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/03/the-m... [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/20734446 https://www.jstor.org/stable/20734446 [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanshapiro/2014/10/24/3-ways-to-close-the-play-gap-between-rich-and-poor-kids/?sh=734a645d1233 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanshapiro/2014/10/24/3-ways... [3] https://talkpoverty.org/2017/06/01/matters-poor-kids-dont-time-play/ https://talkpoverty.org/2017/06/01/matters-poor-kids-dont-ti...
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    > Only on the Internet would someone demand a “counterargument” to support the super basic statement “your life experience wasn’t universal amongst poor people”… My argument is not "Poor kids universally have time to do what they want." It's hard for me to believe you are having a good faith conversation, or even read my comments, if this is your opening line. > Fine [0][1][2][3]. Keep in mind this isn’t some “1+1=2” problem, and people have dedicated their lives to figuring this out, so if you’re looking for a “conclusion” then I don’t recommend human psychology. The fact that none of these represent a counter argument, and some actually support my premise, supports the above, you either haven't read my comments at all, or you flavored them in your own mind to such a degree that they no longer represent anything I actually said. I'll restate my point a final time in hopes you'll actually address it: *time is the most equitably distributed resource amongst poor youth. Is it universally so? No. Is it perfectly so? No.* Two of your four links talk about the parents' time (either time with their children or otherwise) and the last two talk about time for recess. I fail to see how either of these represent less time for high school students, the kind who take the SAT, to study for the SAT. Had you provided links that showed that kids in poverty have less time to study than their rich counterparts by some non-trivial margin, that'd be relevant, but all of your links just point out other places in poor kids lives that they are disadvantaged (less parental supervision, less childhood vocabulary, less childhood free social time, etc.), which are all definitely problems, but I fail to see where college administrators can use those to inform admissions in any meaningfully objective way.
    - matai_kolila 4y ago
      > Had you provided links that showed that kids in poverty have less time to study than their rich counterparts by some non-trivial margin, that'd be relevant, but all of your links just point out other places in poor kids lives that they are disadvantaged (less parental supervision, less childhood vocabulary, less childhood free social time, etc.), which are all definitely problems, but I fail to see where college administrators can use those to inform admissions in any meaningfully objective way. If you can’t see how a leads to b, there are no words I can write here to convince you of anything, about anything. I can’t make connections for you, you need to figure this out for yourself, which is why I never expected you to do anything but stick to your “let’s have an Internet argument about an obvious fact” strategy.
      - BobbyJo 4y ago
        What are A and B in this scenario? Schools not giving 4th graders recess means they don't have time to study in 10th grade? Parents not reading to their kids means those kids have less time for self directed study? Again, vague disagreement isn't super helpful. I'd love to have my mind changed to match reality if I'm mistaken in some way.
lupire 4y ago
Please say what you are trying to communicate. That poor kids are working full time jobs? That's not true.

My man, if you were poor and had a lot of free time, someone in your life was being a great person to keep you from that effect of poverty. Not all of us were so lucky.

BobbyJo 4y ago

Again, I'm not saying my experience is universal, just common among myself and my poor friends and cousins. Time seems to me to be the most equitably distributed resource, but I'd love a counter argument that was more than vague disagreement.

matai_kolila 4y ago
Only on the Internet would someone demand a “counterargument” to support the super basic statement “your life experience wasn’t universal amongst poor people”… Fine [0][1][2][3]. Keep in mind this isn’t some “1+1=2” problem, and people have dedicated their lives to figuring this out, so if you’re looking for a “conclusion” then I don’t recommend human psychology. Let me know if you have any questions, but honestly I’m wary of an attempted trolling on your part so please come honestly and with curiosity. Also this is not my area of expertise, and you’ll likely get a better understanding of this very complex issue if you look into this on your own. At best I can be (and frankly am only interested in being) a starting point. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/03/the-most-powerful-thing-we-could-give-poor-kids-is-completely-free/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/11/03/the-m... [1] https://www.jstor.org/stable/20734446 https://www.jstor.org/stable/20734446 [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanshapiro/2014/10/24/3-ways-to-close-the-play-gap-between-rich-and-poor-kids/?sh=734a645d1233 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jordanshapiro/2014/10/24/3-ways... [3] https://talkpoverty.org/2017/06/01/matters-poor-kids-dont-time-play/ https://talkpoverty.org/2017/06/01/matters-poor-kids-dont-ti...
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  > Only on the Internet would someone demand a “counterargument” to support the super basic statement “your life experience wasn’t universal amongst poor people”… My argument is not "Poor kids universally have time to do what they want." It's hard for me to believe you are having a good faith conversation, or even read my comments, if this is your opening line. > Fine [0][1][2][3]. Keep in mind this isn’t some “1+1=2” problem, and people have dedicated their lives to figuring this out, so if you’re looking for a “conclusion” then I don’t recommend human psychology. The fact that none of these represent a counter argument, and some actually support my premise, supports the above, you either haven't read my comments at all, or you flavored them in your own mind to such a degree that they no longer represent anything I actually said. I'll restate my point a final time in hopes you'll actually address it: *time is the most equitably distributed resource amongst poor youth. Is it universally so? No. Is it perfectly so? No.* Two of your four links talk about the parents' time (either time with their children or otherwise) and the last two talk about time for recess. I fail to see how either of these represent less time for high school students, the kind who take the SAT, to study for the SAT. Had you provided links that showed that kids in poverty have less time to study than their rich counterparts by some non-trivial margin, that'd be relevant, but all of your links just point out other places in poor kids lives that they are disadvantaged (less parental supervision, less childhood vocabulary, less childhood free social time, etc.), which are all definitely problems, but I fail to see where college administrators can use those to inform admissions in any meaningfully objective way.
  - matai_kolila 4y ago
    > Had you provided links that showed that kids in poverty have less time to study than their rich counterparts by some non-trivial margin, that'd be relevant, but all of your links just point out other places in poor kids lives that they are disadvantaged (less parental supervision, less childhood vocabulary, less childhood free social time, etc.), which are all definitely problems, but I fail to see where college administrators can use those to inform admissions in any meaningfully objective way. If you can’t see how a leads to b, there are no words I can write here to convince you of anything, about anything. I can’t make connections for you, you need to figure this out for yourself, which is why I never expected you to do anything but stick to your “let’s have an Internet argument about an obvious fact” strategy.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      What are A and B in this scenario? Schools not giving 4th graders recess means they don't have time to study in 10th grade? Parents not reading to their kids means those kids have less time for self directed study? Again, vague disagreement isn't super helpful. I'd love to have my mind changed to match reality if I'm mistaken in some way.

lupire 4y ago

Please say what you are trying to communicate. That poor kids are working full time jobs? That's not true.