12 ms·

All three of these are dwarfed by key wells (i.e. do the keys sit in an indentation, or do you have to tilt your wrists upwards?) for me. It's always subjective

by tazjin 4y ago

All three of these are dwarfed by key wells (i.e. do the keys sit in an indentation, or do you have to tilt your wrists upwards?) for me. It's always subjective.

crazygringo 4y ago
No, it's not subjective at all. It's actually entirely objective, in terms of the amount of tension you need to hold in the muscles connected to your shoulders, elbows, and wrists. You're looking to maintain a neutral position in all of those, to minimize tension there. There's nothing subjective whatsoever about that, tension is very observable. Second, I would very much push back on key wells for the general population. Adjustable tilt forwards on a flat keyboard achieves everything you need for neutral wrist position and relaxed fingers, so that you're always typing slightly "downwards". Key wells try to accomplish a weird goal of holding your arms/hands in a fixed position and typing with just your fingers, instead of typing with your whole arm floating in an integrated shoulder-to-fingertip movement. If you have some kind of arm movement problem/disability then concave wells might be the best solution, but for the general population the wells are more awkward to use in the upper rows of keys, increasing the forearm tension which controls the fingers. (As a general rule, tension is usually minimized overall by distributing work across as many muscles as possible that involve longer muscle trains, rather than localizing work in shorter areas. That, for example, is why people say to lift with your back, not with your arms.)
- tazjin 4y ago
  This is why I'm telling you this is subjective, as much as you'd like to reduce it to some "objective" criteria. I broke my wrist a few years ago, and since then typing on anything without key wells is a bad idea. I've seen too much advice like yours leading to people with some specific problem going "but I'm doing everything correctly, how am I still experiencing problems?!".
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    Sorry, yes -- if you have a wrist injury that makes perfect sense. And that's precisely why I wrote that key wells were a bad idea unless you had an injury/disability. And on the one hand I do want to stress that this is still entirely objective -- it's about actual objective muscle function, it's not subjective opinion. But on the other hand, I can appreciate how frustrating it can be when the advice is geared for people without injury, but presenting it as if it applies to everyone including those with injuries. Sorry if I came across that way. It's just my own frustration with so many quack "ergonomic" products that defend their products which create injuries by suggesting that consumers should just decide for themselves, because the manufacturers are just providing "options".
- ctoth 4y ago
  Generally, lift with your legs, not your back.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    Brain fart, that's what I meant to write. Thanks :)

by tazjin 4y ago

All three of these are dwarfed by key wells (i.e. do the keys sit in an indentation, or do you have to tilt your wrists upwards?) for me. It's always subjective.

crazygringo 4y ago

No, it's not subjective at all. It's actually entirely objective, in terms of the amount of tension you need to hold in the muscles connected to your shoulders, elbows, and wrists. You're looking to maintain a neutral position in all of those, to minimize tension there. There's nothing subjective whatsoever about that, tension is very observable. Second, I would very much push back on key wells for the general population. Adjustable tilt forwards on a flat keyboard achieves everything you need for neutral wrist position and relaxed fingers, so that you're always typing slightly "downwards". Key wells try to accomplish a weird goal of holding your arms/hands in a fixed position and typing with just your fingers, instead of typing with your whole arm floating in an integrated shoulder-to-fingertip movement. If you have some kind of arm movement problem/disability then concave wells might be the best solution, but for the general population the wells are more awkward to use in the upper rows of keys, increasing the forearm tension which controls the fingers. (As a general rule, tension is usually minimized overall by distributing work across as many muscles as possible that involve longer muscle trains, rather than localizing work in shorter areas. That, for example, is why people say to lift with your back, not with your arms.)

tazjin 4y ago
This is why I'm telling you this is subjective, as much as you'd like to reduce it to some "objective" criteria. I broke my wrist a few years ago, and since then typing on anything without key wells is a bad idea. I've seen too much advice like yours leading to people with some specific problem going "but I'm doing everything correctly, how am I still experiencing problems?!".
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Sorry, yes -- if you have a wrist injury that makes perfect sense. And that's precisely why I wrote that key wells were a bad idea unless you had an injury/disability. And on the one hand I do want to stress that this is still entirely objective -- it's about actual objective muscle function, it's not subjective opinion. But on the other hand, I can appreciate how frustrating it can be when the advice is geared for people without injury, but presenting it as if it applies to everyone including those with injuries. Sorry if I came across that way. It's just my own frustration with so many quack "ergonomic" products that defend their products which create injuries by suggesting that consumers should just decide for themselves, because the manufacturers are just providing "options".
ctoth 4y ago
Generally, lift with your legs, not your back.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Brain fart, that's what I meant to write. Thanks :)