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I am a free market lover, and I absolutely reject the idea of forced, low or no pay prison labor I think all prisoners who voluntarily choose to work should be

I am a free market lover, and I absolutely reject the idea of forced, low or no pay prison labor I think all prisoners who voluntarily choose to work should be paid a market wage for their labor. I also think some of that wage should be used as compensation to the victims of their crimes.

seventytwo 4y ago
Then what you really love is a regulated market.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  No, I am not sure how you believe forced prison labor for free or low wages is somehow a "free market" The Labor in this context is directly derived from government criminal codes, thus not disconnecting it from anything resembling a free market
  - seventytwo 4y ago
    Because those are exactly the things that happen in a “free market”. Freer the market, the faster it devolves into feudalism.
    - djbebs 4y ago
      Oh please...
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      I am sure you have examples of this happening in history right?
shagie 4y ago
As Labor Pool Shrinks, Prison Time Is Less of a Hiring Hurdle - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-market-inmates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-ma... > Nearly every weekday morning for much of last year, Mr. Forseth would board a van at the minimum-security prison outside Madison, Wis., and ride to Stoughton Trailers, where he and more than a dozen other inmates earned $14 an hour wiring taillights and building sidewalls for the company’s line of semitrailers. > After he was released, Mr. Forseth kept right on working at Stoughton. But instead of riding in the prison van, he drives to work in the 2015 Ford Fusion he bought with the money he saved while incarcerated. > Meghen Yeadon, a recruiter for Stoughton, found part of the solution: a Wisconsin Department of Corrections work-release program for minimum-security inmates. > Work-release programs have often been criticized for exploiting inmates by forcing them to work grueling jobs for pay that is often well below minimum wage. But the Wisconsin program is voluntary, and inmates are paid market wages. State officials say the program gives inmates a chance to build up some savings, learn vocational skills and prepare for life after prison.
- bluGill 4y ago
  While those programs are easy to abuse, it is very important that someone released from prison has a path to an honest life. Few places will hire felons, so dumping someone on the street with no job ensures they turn to crime, it is the only way they can get food. If they have a job though you can arrange an apartment and other than a new place to sleep things seem normal and so they have a chance.
  - LtWorf 4y ago
    Make police records unavailable to the public?
    - djbebs 4y ago
      Absolutely not, we should be requiring more state transparency, not less.
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      I will have to agree with the other commenter. While the natural response is to try ad protect the privacy of the accused or even the convicted by sealing the records, history is full of proof that governments that can act in secret rarely works out well for the people under the thumb of those governments. Secret Police records, generally result in a system where people just "disappear". So while there are good intentions to sealing police records, the result of those good intentions would likely result in extreme abuse of power I think the better course of action would be a path to have convictions expunged, and once expunged allowing for civil defamation against any entity or person that reports the individual was convicted once the record was expunged. The time it takes to expunge a record should be determined by the courts with a max time set in statute
    - bluGill 4y ago
      There is enough repeat offenders that you can't let them do just anything. I don't know what the right answer is, but it isn't easy.

seventytwo 4y ago

Then what you really love is a regulated market.

phpisthebest 4y ago
No, I am not sure how you believe forced prison labor for free or low wages is somehow a "free market" The Labor in this context is directly derived from government criminal codes, thus not disconnecting it from anything resembling a free market
- seventytwo 4y ago
  Because those are exactly the things that happen in a “free market”. Freer the market, the faster it devolves into feudalism.
  - djbebs 4y ago
    Oh please...
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I am sure you have examples of this happening in history right?

shagie 4y ago

As Labor Pool Shrinks, Prison Time Is Less of a Hiring Hurdle - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-market-inmates.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/business/economy/labor-ma... > Nearly every weekday morning for much of last year, Mr. Forseth would board a van at the minimum-security prison outside Madison, Wis., and ride to Stoughton Trailers, where he and more than a dozen other inmates earned $14 an hour wiring taillights and building sidewalls for the company’s line of semitrailers. > After he was released, Mr. Forseth kept right on working at Stoughton. But instead of riding in the prison van, he drives to work in the 2015 Ford Fusion he bought with the money he saved while incarcerated. > Meghen Yeadon, a recruiter for Stoughton, found part of the solution: a Wisconsin Department of Corrections work-release program for minimum-security inmates. > Work-release programs have often been criticized for exploiting inmates by forcing them to work grueling jobs for pay that is often well below minimum wage. But the Wisconsin program is voluntary, and inmates are paid market wages. State officials say the program gives inmates a chance to build up some savings, learn vocational skills and prepare for life after prison.

bluGill 4y ago
While those programs are easy to abuse, it is very important that someone released from prison has a path to an honest life. Few places will hire felons, so dumping someone on the street with no job ensures they turn to crime, it is the only way they can get food. If they have a job though you can arrange an apartment and other than a new place to sleep things seem normal and so they have a chance.
- LtWorf 4y ago
  Make police records unavailable to the public?
  - djbebs 4y ago
    Absolutely not, we should be requiring more state transparency, not less.
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    I will have to agree with the other commenter. While the natural response is to try ad protect the privacy of the accused or even the convicted by sealing the records, history is full of proof that governments that can act in secret rarely works out well for the people under the thumb of those governments. Secret Police records, generally result in a system where people just "disappear". So while there are good intentions to sealing police records, the result of those good intentions would likely result in extreme abuse of power I think the better course of action would be a path to have convictions expunged, and once expunged allowing for civil defamation against any entity or person that reports the individual was convicted once the record was expunged. The time it takes to expunge a record should be determined by the courts with a max time set in statute
  - bluGill 4y ago
    There is enough repeat offenders that you can't let them do just anything. I don't know what the right answer is, but it isn't easy.