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Why not just use AWS? The free tier goes pretty far for a basic webapp. Plus basically any extra infrastructure you might need. I have a whole distributed data

Why not just use AWS? The free tier goes pretty far for a basic webapp. Plus basically any extra infrastructure you might need. I have a whole distributed data ingestion startup that when not used costs 2$ to host on AWS. The front end and backend APIs are basically free, its only the ML workloads that cost anything

metadat 4y ago
Or go with the Oracle OCI free-tier and get even more resources for $0. The free 24GB ARM instances are generous and capable. Just make sure to select a home region during sign-up which has them (Phoenix / PHX probably gives the best odds). that said, perhaps not everyone is a sysadmin and security expert. In fact, this was the whole beauty of Heroku; "git push heroku" and you're done.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
  Maybe, but if you do enough fishing around on github repos, you can find CDK code that will spin up a whole secure website with a database.
  - metadat 4y ago
    What is CDK?
    - guessmyname 4y ago
      AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) — https://aws.amazon.com/cdk/ https://aws.amazon.com/cdk/ > AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) is an open-source software development framework used to model and provision your cloud application resources with familiar programming languages. AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) accelerates cloud development using common programming languages to model your applications. If you have used or read about Hashicorp Terraform, this is basically the same thing but limited to AWS. The “Getting Started” website shows a bit of code if you want a preview — https://docs.aws.amazon.com/cdk/v2/guide/getting_started.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/cdk/v2/guide/getting_started.htm...
      - scarface74 4y ago
        While the AWS SDK is limited to AWS, Hashicorp ported the CDK to Terraform. https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/cdktf https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/cdktf
- troysk 4y ago
  dokku does that well. not sure if it works on ARM arch though.
  - josegonzalez 4y ago
    Dokku works on ARM and ARM64, in addition to AMD64. Note: I'm the maintainer of Dokku.
    - troysk 4y ago
      Thank you for the work! It has been amazing using dokku.
- fbdab103 4y ago
  Yeah, but then I have to be looking over my shoulder that Larry Ellison is going to spring some kind of legal/financial trap. I will pay more to avoid Oracle.
- cercatrova 4y ago
  You couldn't pay me to use anything Oracle based. I'd much rather take my chances with AWS or another host than use Oracle.
  - metadat 4y ago
    What is the distinction between Bezos vs. Ellison? They are both sociopathic jerks. In any case, more power to you, friend. In my eyes, a rented server is a rented server regardless of which data center or network provider is behind it. It's not emotional, merely an optimization game.
    - fbdab103 4y ago
      Debatably, Amazon is focused on delivering a good product ("customer focused"). Oracle feels far more likely to "trick" you into a costly financial arrangement where you are offered a deal you cannot refuse.
      - metadat 4y ago
        I've found OCI to be roughly on par with AWS for compute and networking. I've had the free tier account and corresponding instances for more than 5 years now with zero issues. With that said, it's generally good advice to not count or rely on anything free for important things. Hence the motivation behind this story; Heroku used to be free and now it's evaporating away back into the ether. My only goal here is to provide helpful information. Cheers.
    - michaelt 4y ago
      Amazon/AWS is playing the long game, not raising prices (and even lowering them) even though many of their customers are thoroughly locked in; and of producing products that are pretty popular with users. Most of their assholery is towards employees, suppliers, and competitors - rather than customers. Oracle, on the other hand, has a reputation for extracting maximum money from locked-in customers; an aggressive legal team; and producing products like Oracle Financials which are widely hated by users.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- xtracto 4y ago
  I tried oracle cloud for some time. Its interface is horrendous, some of its instances gave issues all over the place and after shooting it down I am still getting emails , in Portuguese (for some unknown reason I guess someone read my last name and thought I speak that language) and I get calls from time to time. It was a horrible experience.
derefr 4y ago
Because an IaaS is not a PaaS, and people who were previously dependent on Heroku probably don’t have the DevOps skillset required to use an IaaS? I know Elastic Beanstalk and Lightsail both exist; but they’re both much more complicated than `git push heroku master`. And that’s not even counting what you have to do/learn to be able to wire up a DB or Redis instance or Email deliverability on AWS.
- ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
  I should just start a startup that converts heroku into an AWS instance then because its straightforward
  - chevman 4y ago
    I have various friends/acquaintances/prior coworkers running 8-9 figure digital/IT agencies premised on very similar workflows. Straightforward to you may still be magic to most non-tech people. They will pay an insane premium to not have to worry about this type of stuff.
    - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
      8-9 figures on webhosting/helping non technical people manage and deploy some app? Or you're saying those digital agencies would pay a premium to be an end user.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    Cloud66 provides a Heroku-like experience on EC2 instances in your AWS account. (plus there are open source options, like Dokku)
- bredren 4y ago
  When I had to work with Heroku, I found that it had many of its own specific eccentricities. And to do the setup of a bare metal web service was not much more to know. This is especially true looking at prebaked stuff like what digital ocean offers. You can use their Django image and the entire thing is ready to go. Ultimately, docker and docker orchestrations are fairly standard devops skills at this point. I think these paas solutions take devs who might otherwise bite the bullet and learn how to work with these in the wrong direction.
Waterluvian 4y ago
Infrastructure is a distraction to what Heroku users actually care about: sharing their thing online. AWS takes us in the wrong direction in terms of minimizing that distraction. It’s also kinda scary to screw up and be on the hook for lots of money.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Infrastructure is a distraction to what Heroku users actually care about: sharing their thing online. AWS takes us in the wrong direction in terms of minimizing that distraction Isn’t that what AWS Elastic Beanstalk is about? AWS supports a wide variety of different approaches.
  - whatever1 4y ago
    Beanstalk has a lot of surprising costs like loadbalancing. I was trying something on a simple Django project that nobody else accessed except me for like 3 times. AWS charged me $30 that month. Nobody knows what load they were balancing since I barely used the app. I shut down everything.
nosecreek 4y ago
Free tier is limited to 12 months though, isn’t it?

metadat 4y ago

Or go with the Oracle OCI free-tier and get even more resources for $0. The free 24GB ARM instances are generous and capable. Just make sure to select a home region during sign-up which has them (Phoenix / PHX probably gives the best odds). that said, perhaps not everyone is a sysadmin and security expert. In fact, this was the whole beauty of Heroku; "git push heroku" and you're done.

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
Maybe, but if you do enough fishing around on github repos, you can find CDK code that will spin up a whole secure website with a database.
- metadat 4y ago
  What is CDK?
  - guessmyname 4y ago
    AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) — https://aws.amazon.com/cdk/ https://aws.amazon.com/cdk/ > AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) is an open-source software development framework used to model and provision your cloud application resources with familiar programming languages. AWS Cloud Development Kit (CDK) accelerates cloud development using common programming languages to model your applications. If you have used or read about Hashicorp Terraform, this is basically the same thing but limited to AWS. The “Getting Started” website shows a bit of code if you want a preview — https://docs.aws.amazon.com/cdk/v2/guide/getting_started.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/cdk/v2/guide/getting_started.htm...
    - scarface74 4y ago
      While the AWS SDK is limited to AWS, Hashicorp ported the CDK to Terraform. https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/cdktf https://developer.hashicorp.com/terraform/cdktf
troysk 4y ago
dokku does that well. not sure if it works on ARM arch though.
- josegonzalez 4y ago
  Dokku works on ARM and ARM64, in addition to AMD64. Note: I'm the maintainer of Dokku.
  - troysk 4y ago
    Thank you for the work! It has been amazing using dokku.
fbdab103 4y ago
Yeah, but then I have to be looking over my shoulder that Larry Ellison is going to spring some kind of legal/financial trap. I will pay more to avoid Oracle.
cercatrova 4y ago
You couldn't pay me to use anything Oracle based. I'd much rather take my chances with AWS or another host than use Oracle.
- metadat 4y ago
  What is the distinction between Bezos vs. Ellison? They are both sociopathic jerks. In any case, more power to you, friend. In my eyes, a rented server is a rented server regardless of which data center or network provider is behind it. It's not emotional, merely an optimization game.
  - fbdab103 4y ago
    Debatably, Amazon is focused on delivering a good product ("customer focused"). Oracle feels far more likely to "trick" you into a costly financial arrangement where you are offered a deal you cannot refuse.
    - metadat 4y ago
      I've found OCI to be roughly on par with AWS for compute and networking. I've had the free tier account and corresponding instances for more than 5 years now with zero issues. With that said, it's generally good advice to not count or rely on anything free for important things. Hence the motivation behind this story; Heroku used to be free and now it's evaporating away back into the ether. My only goal here is to provide helpful information. Cheers.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    Amazon/AWS is playing the long game, not raising prices (and even lowering them) even though many of their customers are thoroughly locked in; and of producing products that are pretty popular with users. Most of their assholery is towards employees, suppliers, and competitors - rather than customers. Oracle, on the other hand, has a reputation for extracting maximum money from locked-in customers; an aggressive legal team; and producing products like Oracle Financials which are widely hated by users.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
xtracto 4y ago
I tried oracle cloud for some time. Its interface is horrendous, some of its instances gave issues all over the place and after shooting it down I am still getting emails , in Portuguese (for some unknown reason I guess someone read my last name and thought I speak that language) and I get calls from time to time. It was a horrible experience.

derefr 4y ago

Because an IaaS is not a PaaS, and people who were previously dependent on Heroku probably don’t have the DevOps skillset required to use an IaaS? I know Elastic Beanstalk and Lightsail both exist; but they’re both much more complicated than `git push heroku master`. And that’s not even counting what you have to do/learn to be able to wire up a DB or Redis instance or Email deliverability on AWS.

ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
I should just start a startup that converts heroku into an AWS instance then because its straightforward
- chevman 4y ago
  I have various friends/acquaintances/prior coworkers running 8-9 figure digital/IT agencies premised on very similar workflows. Straightforward to you may still be magic to most non-tech people. They will pay an insane premium to not have to worry about this type of stuff.
  - ldjkfkdsjnv 4y ago
    8-9 figures on webhosting/helping non technical people manage and deploy some app? Or you're saying those digital agencies would pay a premium to be an end user.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  Cloud66 provides a Heroku-like experience on EC2 instances in your AWS account. (plus there are open source options, like Dokku)
bredren 4y ago
When I had to work with Heroku, I found that it had many of its own specific eccentricities. And to do the setup of a bare metal web service was not much more to know. This is especially true looking at prebaked stuff like what digital ocean offers. You can use their Django image and the entire thing is ready to go. Ultimately, docker and docker orchestrations are fairly standard devops skills at this point. I think these paas solutions take devs who might otherwise bite the bullet and learn how to work with these in the wrong direction.

Waterluvian 4y ago

Infrastructure is a distraction to what Heroku users actually care about: sharing their thing online. AWS takes us in the wrong direction in terms of minimizing that distraction. It’s also kinda scary to screw up and be on the hook for lots of money.

dragonwriter 4y ago
> Infrastructure is a distraction to what Heroku users actually care about: sharing their thing online. AWS takes us in the wrong direction in terms of minimizing that distraction Isn’t that what AWS Elastic Beanstalk is about? AWS supports a wide variety of different approaches.
- whatever1 4y ago
  Beanstalk has a lot of surprising costs like loadbalancing. I was trying something on a simple Django project that nobody else accessed except me for like 3 times. AWS charged me $30 that month. Nobody knows what load they were balancing since I barely used the app. I shut down everything.

nosecreek 4y ago

Free tier is limited to 12 months though, isn’t it?