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I‘be always wondered why kids can’t consent to work but can consent to school.

by faeriechangling 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
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s1artibartfast 4y ago
They don't have the choice of consenting to school or not. It is compulsory
- knaekhoved 4y ago
  That is very clearly the GP's entire point.
  - watwut 4y ago
    But it failed, because kids don't consent to school. They don't have to go to school, but the decision is completely on parents. And when parents decide to homeschool or unschool, kids have no say either.
    - knaekhoved 4y ago
      OK, so, following GPs argument, would that justify making kids work without asking them if they wanted to? The point is that allowing kids to work is clearly not as egregious as forcing them to attend prison-style schools, and yet we punish the former and support the latter.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        The whole line of argument is junk
      - watwut 4y ago
        There is no argument that you could followning from what OP said. I have never seen anyone argue that kids consent to school. It does not exist. I did heard about some homeschool parents claiming their kids wanted it that way, but even that came from homeschooled kids unhappy with that decision (meaning biased narrator and heavily self selected group). Homeschool parents I heard talking said they think it is best for kids. > forcing them to attend prison-style schools That is not true for most kids. If your parents pay for one of those camps for troubled teenagers, then it is prison like. If you commit crime then yes, your school will be prison. If you have enough behavioral issues to end up in one of those special schools, it gets closer to prison. But no, schools are not prison like for overwhelming majority of kids. Going further, majority of kids has neutral or positive attitude toward schools. Some hate it, but they are minority.
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decremental 4y ago
Kids can't consent to anything.
- tomrod 4y ago
  That's nonsensical and blends legal consent and practical capacity for decisions. Most 12 year olds can tell you if they like orange juice with breakfast when asked if they want some. An affirmation is a consent. The 18th birthday is not a magical doorway.
  - decremental 4y ago
    Wanting something is not consent. Kids can want all sorts of things and that doesn't demonstrate having a capacity for decision making.
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      I think parents point was that being 18 doesn't demonstrate said capacity either. Some kids are mature enough to make important decisions at 15, some kids can't make a good decision if their life depends on it at 25, so the blanket statements one way or another are obviously bad. We chose an age that made sense to us, because the law needs an objective anchor point, not a philosophical one. However, just because the age makes sense to us legally and socially, doesn't mean it's enshrined in natural law, and we shouldn't necessarily view it as such.
      - decremental 4y ago
        15 year old brains are not fully developed. No 15 year old, however brilliant, has the capacity to consent. Though I agree 18 is an arbitrary cut off and it should be higher. Edit: Below I am replying to the reply to this comment here because apparently 5 posts in an hour and a half is enough to trigger rate limiting for me. Yes, that is too young to make that decision. You can throw any hypothetical, emotional situation at this and the answer will be the same.
recursive 4y ago
Are you under the impression that only consenting kids are required to go to school?

I‘be always wondered why kids can’t consent to work but can consent to school.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

s1artibartfast 4y ago

They don't have the choice of consenting to school or not. It is compulsory

knaekhoved 4y ago
That is very clearly the GP's entire point.
- watwut 4y ago
  But it failed, because kids don't consent to school. They don't have to go to school, but the decision is completely on parents. And when parents decide to homeschool or unschool, kids have no say either.
  - knaekhoved 4y ago
    OK, so, following GPs argument, would that justify making kids work without asking them if they wanted to? The point is that allowing kids to work is clearly not as egregious as forcing them to attend prison-style schools, and yet we punish the former and support the latter.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      The whole line of argument is junk
    - watwut 4y ago
      There is no argument that you could followning from what OP said. I have never seen anyone argue that kids consent to school. It does not exist. I did heard about some homeschool parents claiming their kids wanted it that way, but even that came from homeschooled kids unhappy with that decision (meaning biased narrator and heavily self selected group). Homeschool parents I heard talking said they think it is best for kids. > forcing them to attend prison-style schools That is not true for most kids. If your parents pay for one of those camps for troubled teenagers, then it is prison like. If you commit crime then yes, your school will be prison. If you have enough behavioral issues to end up in one of those special schools, it gets closer to prison. But no, schools are not prison like for overwhelming majority of kids. Going further, majority of kids has neutral or positive attitude toward schools. Some hate it, but they are minority.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

decremental 4y ago

Kids can't consent to anything.

tomrod 4y ago
That's nonsensical and blends legal consent and practical capacity for decisions. Most 12 year olds can tell you if they like orange juice with breakfast when asked if they want some. An affirmation is a consent. The 18th birthday is not a magical doorway.
- decremental 4y ago
  Wanting something is not consent. Kids can want all sorts of things and that doesn't demonstrate having a capacity for decision making.
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    I think parents point was that being 18 doesn't demonstrate said capacity either. Some kids are mature enough to make important decisions at 15, some kids can't make a good decision if their life depends on it at 25, so the blanket statements one way or another are obviously bad. We chose an age that made sense to us, because the law needs an objective anchor point, not a philosophical one. However, just because the age makes sense to us legally and socially, doesn't mean it's enshrined in natural law, and we shouldn't necessarily view it as such.
    - decremental 4y ago
      15 year old brains are not fully developed. No 15 year old, however brilliant, has the capacity to consent. Though I agree 18 is an arbitrary cut off and it should be higher. Edit: Below I am replying to the reply to this comment here because apparently 5 posts in an hour and a half is enough to trigger rate limiting for me. Yes, that is too young to make that decision. You can throw any hypothetical, emotional situation at this and the answer will be the same.

recursive 4y ago

Are you under the impression that only consenting kids are required to go to school?