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If we take the premise that companies will hire solely based on getting the job done vs. the cost of hiring, the current market we have wouldn't make sense. It

by Bakary 4y ago

If we take the premise that companies will hire solely based on getting the job done vs. the cost of hiring, the current market we have wouldn't make sense. It would not make sense for a junior American dev to ever be paid equally or as much as a senior non-US based dev in the same company, or even more than a junior dev is some other developed region, yet that is an extremely common if not universal occurrence. It also wouldn't make sense that American salaries would be much higher in general to begin with, since the corresponding premise that America-based devs are that much more naturally talented than the entire rest of the world is not plausible, even if obviously there are massive concentrations of talent in the US. This latter concentration suffers in itself from chicken-and-egg circularity, since people came to the US due to the salaries involved. The only plausible explanation is that for historical and geopolitical reasons there is a disproportionate amount of capital flowing into the US, and American companies have an incentive to hire US-based talent regardless of the tasks needing to be addressed. Try to reverse the analysis here: if the market rate factors aren't gone if you move, why would Atlassian ever 'adjust' salaries for remote workers who leave the US? You're still doing the same job, so it can't be that they were paying you solely for it to be done.

chrisseaton 4y ago
> It would not make sense for a junior American dev to ever be paid equally or as much as a senior non-US based dev in the same company, or even more than a junior dev is some other developed region, yet that is an extremely common if not universal occurrence. This does make sense - they have better technical skills (because of better education - you said this yourself) and better communication skills (because of cultural context) and also in general I think better attitude and aspiration. > why would Atlassian ever 'adjust' salaries for remote workers who leave the US? In a foolish attempt to save money that doesn't make any sense, based on the same misconception you have. If they could hire people for less money to do the same job then why weren't they already doing that?
- Bakary 4y ago
  >This does make sense - they have better technical skills (because of better education - you said this yourself) and better communication skills (because of cultural context) and also in general I think better attitude and aspiration. This isn't a plausible explanation if you are at all familiar with the tech world outside of the US, or even higher education systems. It's easier for an American to get a good education, but the quantity of quality educated people is high in every developed country. Besides, for the explanation to make sense, the Americans wouldn't have to be slightly better, they would have to be multiple standard deviations better to merit the current salaries. >If they could hire people for less money to do the same job then why weren't they already doing that? Because the whole point is that locality is a factor in the hiring practices of tech companies, though this is changing significantly
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    > This isn't a plausible explanation if you are at all familiar with the tech world outside of the US I live outside the US and work in tech, so I am familiar with it. > or even higher education systems I'm also a Visiting Academic in a higher education institution, so I'm familiar with that too. > the quantity of quality educated people is high in every developed country I'm not so sure - I'm in the UK, and we have a chronic lack of skilled technical people. It's a big problem - big enough to be a national security issue. We just don't seem to have the knowledge, skill, or aspiration to produce a lot of talented tech people, outside of a small elite. And I think the UK is in a good position compared to places like France, Italy, etc, which are even worse.

by Bakary 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

> It would not make sense for a junior American dev to ever be paid equally or as much as a senior non-US based dev in the same company, or even more than a junior dev is some other developed region, yet that is an extremely common if not universal occurrence. This does make sense - they have better technical skills (because of better education - you said this yourself) and better communication skills (because of cultural context) and also in general I think better attitude and aspiration. > why would Atlassian ever 'adjust' salaries for remote workers who leave the US? In a foolish attempt to save money that doesn't make any sense, based on the same misconception you have. If they could hire people for less money to do the same job then why weren't they already doing that?

Bakary 4y ago
>This does make sense - they have better technical skills (because of better education - you said this yourself) and better communication skills (because of cultural context) and also in general I think better attitude and aspiration. This isn't a plausible explanation if you are at all familiar with the tech world outside of the US, or even higher education systems. It's easier for an American to get a good education, but the quantity of quality educated people is high in every developed country. Besides, for the explanation to make sense, the Americans wouldn't have to be slightly better, they would have to be multiple standard deviations better to merit the current salaries. >If they could hire people for less money to do the same job then why weren't they already doing that? Because the whole point is that locality is a factor in the hiring practices of tech companies, though this is changing significantly
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > This isn't a plausible explanation if you are at all familiar with the tech world outside of the US I live outside the US and work in tech, so I am familiar with it. > or even higher education systems I'm also a Visiting Academic in a higher education institution, so I'm familiar with that too. > the quantity of quality educated people is high in every developed country I'm not so sure - I'm in the UK, and we have a chronic lack of skilled technical people. It's a big problem - big enough to be a national security issue. We just don't seem to have the knowledge, skill, or aspiration to produce a lot of talented tech people, outside of a small elite. And I think the UK is in a good position compared to places like France, Italy, etc, which are even worse.