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I started going back in to the office every day and I love it. I was too lazy being at home all the time, both professionally and personally. Seeing people in

I started going back in to the office every day and I love it. I was too lazy being at home all the time, both professionally and personally. Seeing people in person is so much better than via chat. Of course, this works because my current commute is not awful.

kaesar14 4y ago
- CoastalCoder 4y ago
  I think we've had some pretty balanced and constructive discussions about this I'm HN. I'm not worried.
- csydas 4y ago
  I realize you're being catty, but the stigma towards in-office work isn't towards people who enjoy it, it's towards the idea that everyone _must_ enjoy it. COVID proved that many businesses can survive a hybrid or even remote-only environment easily. Being told that employees must come back to office or altering the salaries/benefits of employees who chose remote work is what people are against. If people want to be in office, let them. And for those who remote is more convenient, let them.
  - spoonjim 4y ago
    The thing is that in-office work only meets the needs of the in-office people if everyone else is there. So instead of every company feeling like they need to support remote work, there should be some companies that are all in-office and some that are all-remote rather than each company feeling that they need to support both. I am not the kind of high performer that companies fall over themselves to hire, but I prefer an employer with no remote work (other than full remote teams like a Europe office) and I’m sure some high performers feel the way I do.
    - KerrAvon 4y ago
      In a large company, it should be a per-team selection, not something set at the CEO level. Many high performers don’t feel the way you do.
    - brookst 4y ago
      I’m a 40% in-office worker and don’t see this all-or nothing view at all. I enjoy white boarding with in-person colleagues, but am fine with remote. I’ve always worked with people in different cities and countries, so I can’t imagine a company where everyone has to be in the same building. It didn’t work that way pre-pandemic, so why now?
- i_like_apis 4y ago
  You’re totally right. And now they’re downvoting you for saying even this, which is silly. Well, it seems some people agree with me and are able to go against groupthink, so that’s nice.
Forge36 4y ago
I like the choice. If I need to collaborate in person is fastest. If I need to focus the ability to go to the bathroom or grab coffee without being interrupted and mindlessly do a task while still focusing on the coding problem is unparalleled. I have a reasonable commute so I don't mind going in every day. My productivity has noticably dropped since I've gone back unfortunately.
gernb 4y ago
I feel like the remote work folks might be unintentionally throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, I believe people should do what they want but I also believe decisions can have unintended consequences. Tons of people make friends at work. I'm pretty confident, if we stop going to work we, collectively, won't make many friends via work. I go to work 3 days a week as requested by my company but others don't so about 1-2 of 6 days I show up and no one else on my team is there. There is arguably an issue with people having less friends than ever https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/07/well/live/adult-friendships-number.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/07/well/live/adult-friendshi... https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/americans-have-fewer-friends-than-ever-before-study/ https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/americans-have-fewer-friends-t... People will reply they don't want friends from work but that doesn't change the fact that lots of people make friends at work, people have less friends than ever, and working from home will only lower that number even more. This was posted yesterday: https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/ It was basically saying society doesn't function without a majority of people having trusting relationships. Well, less gathering because WFH arguably means less friends made in aggregate means less trusting relationships, means downward spiral for society. WFH isn't the reason we got to this low friendship point but it will pretty obviously add to the problem. I'll go even further, do the WFH arguments apply just was well to Learn From Home (LFH). Why should students have to commute to a school or collage, they can just do it all remote. It feels like all the same arguments apply. Similarly, people can claim why should they be forced to be with fellow students the same way WFH advocates say they don't want friends from work, why would that be different for friends from school? And yet, people form lasting relationships from school friends, both high school and college. In fact most people arguably find most of their close life long friends in those years. But applying the same logic as WFH advocates we should allow LFH and I think if we did we'd end up with the same unintended consequences.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  >Well, less gathering because WFH arguably means less friends made in aggregate means less trusting relationships, means downward spiral for society. This is a false equivalency. You don't need to be friends to have a basic sense of trust that people won't stab you in the back or be out to get you. >And yet, people form lasting relationships from school friends, both high school and college. There are two very big differences you don't give any credence to. Kids are still growing and put with their peers. Comparatively, adults are far more rigid, have already traversed most of their social lives and many are not among their peers in anything except a commonly practiced discipline. Sharing a discipline isn't a net gain by default, either. Regardless, it doesn't really matter. You don't need to forcefeed people one way of working like we've done for the past decades, for one. For two, most of your arguments towards adults are moot considering work friends aren't solving the problems most people have regarding lack of friends, quality time, love and romance, and more. Trying to pine this on WFH is pointing at the red herring.

kaesar14 4y ago

CoastalCoder 4y ago
I think we've had some pretty balanced and constructive discussions about this I'm HN. I'm not worried.
csydas 4y ago
I realize you're being catty, but the stigma towards in-office work isn't towards people who enjoy it, it's towards the idea that everyone _must_ enjoy it. COVID proved that many businesses can survive a hybrid or even remote-only environment easily. Being told that employees must come back to office or altering the salaries/benefits of employees who chose remote work is what people are against. If people want to be in office, let them. And for those who remote is more convenient, let them.
- spoonjim 4y ago
  The thing is that in-office work only meets the needs of the in-office people if everyone else is there. So instead of every company feeling like they need to support remote work, there should be some companies that are all in-office and some that are all-remote rather than each company feeling that they need to support both. I am not the kind of high performer that companies fall over themselves to hire, but I prefer an employer with no remote work (other than full remote teams like a Europe office) and I’m sure some high performers feel the way I do.
  - KerrAvon 4y ago
    In a large company, it should be a per-team selection, not something set at the CEO level. Many high performers don’t feel the way you do.
  - brookst 4y ago
    I’m a 40% in-office worker and don’t see this all-or nothing view at all. I enjoy white boarding with in-person colleagues, but am fine with remote. I’ve always worked with people in different cities and countries, so I can’t imagine a company where everyone has to be in the same building. It didn’t work that way pre-pandemic, so why now?
i_like_apis 4y ago
You’re totally right. And now they’re downvoting you for saying even this, which is silly. Well, it seems some people agree with me and are able to go against groupthink, so that’s nice.

Forge36 4y ago

I like the choice. If I need to collaborate in person is fastest. If I need to focus the ability to go to the bathroom or grab coffee without being interrupted and mindlessly do a task while still focusing on the coding problem is unparalleled. I have a reasonable commute so I don't mind going in every day. My productivity has noticably dropped since I've gone back unfortunately.

gernb 4y ago

I feel like the remote work folks might be unintentionally throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, I believe people should do what they want but I also believe decisions can have unintended consequences. Tons of people make friends at work. I'm pretty confident, if we stop going to work we, collectively, won't make many friends via work. I go to work 3 days a week as requested by my company but others don't so about 1-2 of 6 days I show up and no one else on my team is there. There is arguably an issue with people having less friends than ever https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/07/well/live/adult-friendships-number.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/07/well/live/adult-friendshi... https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/americans-have-fewer-friends-than-ever-before-study/ https://nypost.com/2021/07/27/americans-have-fewer-friends-t... People will reply they don't want friends from work but that doesn't change the fact that lots of people make friends at work, people have less friends than ever, and working from home will only lower that number even more. This was posted yesterday: https://ncase.me/trust/ https://ncase.me/trust/ It was basically saying society doesn't function without a majority of people having trusting relationships. Well, less gathering because WFH arguably means less friends made in aggregate means less trusting relationships, means downward spiral for society. WFH isn't the reason we got to this low friendship point but it will pretty obviously add to the problem. I'll go even further, do the WFH arguments apply just was well to Learn From Home (LFH). Why should students have to commute to a school or collage, they can just do it all remote. It feels like all the same arguments apply. Similarly, people can claim why should they be forced to be with fellow students the same way WFH advocates say they don't want friends from work, why would that be different for friends from school? And yet, people form lasting relationships from school friends, both high school and college. In fact most people arguably find most of their close life long friends in those years. But applying the same logic as WFH advocates we should allow LFH and I think if we did we'd end up with the same unintended consequences.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
>Well, less gathering because WFH arguably means less friends made in aggregate means less trusting relationships, means downward spiral for society. This is a false equivalency. You don't need to be friends to have a basic sense of trust that people won't stab you in the back or be out to get you. >And yet, people form lasting relationships from school friends, both high school and college. There are two very big differences you don't give any credence to. Kids are still growing and put with their peers. Comparatively, adults are far more rigid, have already traversed most of their social lives and many are not among their peers in anything except a commonly practiced discipline. Sharing a discipline isn't a net gain by default, either. Regardless, it doesn't really matter. You don't need to forcefeed people one way of working like we've done for the past decades, for one. For two, most of your arguments towards adults are moot considering work friends aren't solving the problems most people have regarding lack of friends, quality time, love and romance, and more. Trying to pine this on WFH is pointing at the red herring.