5 ms·

I don't want to get back to the office. Ever. However, I'm not against offices. I'm against living next to the office, because the majority of them are in the c

I don't want to get back to the office. Ever. However, I'm not against offices. I'm against living next to the office, because the majority of them are in the center of the universe (eg, Broadway in New York, Market Street in SF, etc). Real estate prices there are in the stratosphere. So you either live in a shoebox sacrificing your kids childhood or commute to the office 2-3h daily. Why not to open many small offices _outside_ major cities so that people could A/ afford real estate B/ enjoy outdoor space C/ minimize their commute time?

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Why not to open many small offices _outside_ major cities so that people could A/ afford real estate B/ enjoy outdoor space C/ minimize their commute time? Wasn't this the idea behind the suburban office-building hellscape that people absolutely hated? We thought we were escaping that with our nice city-centre offices!
- pharmakom 4y ago
  The mistake there was making it car centric. Fundamentally it wasn’t such a bad idea.
  - notacoward 4y ago
    The problem is that making it anything else in the (US) suburbs is damn near impossible. So you have your nice little suburban office park ... and what else? If you want to replicate the feel of a city, even at small scale, you're reliant on restaurants and other kinds of stores and entertainment venues being nearby. Unfortunately, they won't see your office park as a draw. They'll still cluster near the big roads. Your choice in the suburbs is to be in Car Hell or to be isolated. The closest compromise I've seen is the area around a local mall. There are tons of restaurants - everything from brewpubs to fast food to a Brazilian steakhouse to coffee shops and my favorite bubble-tea shop. Groceries of all kinds and levels, all sorts of clothing, hardware, housewares, a movie complex, you name it. And there are a couple of semi-decent-looking apartment buildings in the area. It's still very car-centric, crossing the eight-lane road between the apartments and the mall wouldn't be fun, but if I were single and worked in one of the nearby office parks I could see living there and hardly needing to drive anywhere.
voisin 4y ago
> sacrificing your kids childhood What do you mean by this?
- agonmon 4y ago
  I'm guessing this is referring to US cities, where it feels too dangerous/stressful to raise kids. Cities in Europe, like Amsterdam, have a completely different experience.
  - ethanbond 4y ago
    Primary threat being cars.
- andreygrehov 4y ago
  Kids can't have their own rooms (unless you make $300-400k and can afford a 3BR), they do not have opportunity to enjoy outdoor space (there are homeless, traffic, no grass, etc), kids can't go outside without their parents presence, parents struggle to keep up with constantly increasing real estate prices, which down the road affects their children's future. These are just a few from the top of my head.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    Kids don’t need their own rooms. Cities have parks. Kids ride the subway and bus alone — and they can walk alone. Just a few off the top of my head as well
    - andreygrehov 4y ago
      > Kids don’t need their own rooms. I have a different opinion. They need their own space to play and do the homework. Parents need their own space to do their adult stuff. > Cities have parks Good luck trying to afford a property next to a park. 2BR in New York is $7k per month. If you are buying, prepare for $2M+. > Kids ride the subway and bus alone 16 year olds - maybe. What about Those 7,8,9,10? Would you let your 8 yo kid to take a subway to the park? Give me a break. > they can walk alone No, they can't, unless they are 16+, but even then it's dangerous. My friend lived in Battery Park. Her 16 yo kid was bullied and robbed (several times he was surrounded by a few older "kids" and they took his phone away) at least once a month - all in the subway of NY.
elil17 4y ago
Lots of companies do this - they just aren’t FAANGs.
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  Meta, Apple, Netflix, Google, so 4/5 FAANGs, all have their HQ in suburban office developments not in major cities, exactly as GP is describing.
ecshafer 4y ago
I think even without taking fully remote work into account. Using small offices in small cities is an untapped market of employees.There are plenty of 500k - 1M person cities that could support an office of 100-1000 engineers well. I don't see much benefit in these huge 10k, 20k+ office complexes when people still end up doing meetings on zoom because it takes too long.

chrisseaton 4y ago

> Why not to open many small offices _outside_ major cities so that people could A/ afford real estate B/ enjoy outdoor space C/ minimize their commute time? Wasn't this the idea behind the suburban office-building hellscape that people absolutely hated? We thought we were escaping that with our nice city-centre offices!

pharmakom 4y ago
The mistake there was making it car centric. Fundamentally it wasn’t such a bad idea.
- notacoward 4y ago
  The problem is that making it anything else in the (US) suburbs is damn near impossible. So you have your nice little suburban office park ... and what else? If you want to replicate the feel of a city, even at small scale, you're reliant on restaurants and other kinds of stores and entertainment venues being nearby. Unfortunately, they won't see your office park as a draw. They'll still cluster near the big roads. Your choice in the suburbs is to be in Car Hell or to be isolated. The closest compromise I've seen is the area around a local mall. There are tons of restaurants - everything from brewpubs to fast food to a Brazilian steakhouse to coffee shops and my favorite bubble-tea shop. Groceries of all kinds and levels, all sorts of clothing, hardware, housewares, a movie complex, you name it. And there are a couple of semi-decent-looking apartment buildings in the area. It's still very car-centric, crossing the eight-lane road between the apartments and the mall wouldn't be fun, but if I were single and worked in one of the nearby office parks I could see living there and hardly needing to drive anywhere.

voisin 4y ago

> sacrificing your kids childhood What do you mean by this?

agonmon 4y ago
I'm guessing this is referring to US cities, where it feels too dangerous/stressful to raise kids. Cities in Europe, like Amsterdam, have a completely different experience.
- ethanbond 4y ago
  Primary threat being cars.
andreygrehov 4y ago
Kids can't have their own rooms (unless you make $300-400k and can afford a 3BR), they do not have opportunity to enjoy outdoor space (there are homeless, traffic, no grass, etc), kids can't go outside without their parents presence, parents struggle to keep up with constantly increasing real estate prices, which down the road affects their children's future. These are just a few from the top of my head.
- paulcole 4y ago
  Kids don’t need their own rooms. Cities have parks. Kids ride the subway and bus alone — and they can walk alone. Just a few off the top of my head as well
  - andreygrehov 4y ago
    > Kids don’t need their own rooms. I have a different opinion. They need their own space to play and do the homework. Parents need their own space to do their adult stuff. > Cities have parks Good luck trying to afford a property next to a park. 2BR in New York is $7k per month. If you are buying, prepare for $2M+. > Kids ride the subway and bus alone 16 year olds - maybe. What about Those 7,8,9,10? Would you let your 8 yo kid to take a subway to the park? Give me a break. > they can walk alone No, they can't, unless they are 16+, but even then it's dangerous. My friend lived in Battery Park. Her 16 yo kid was bullied and robbed (several times he was surrounded by a few older "kids" and they took his phone away) at least once a month - all in the subway of NY.

elil17 4y ago

Lots of companies do this - they just aren’t FAANGs.

chrisseaton 4y ago
Meta, Apple, Netflix, Google, so 4/5 FAANGs, all have their HQ in suburban office developments not in major cities, exactly as GP is describing.

ecshafer 4y ago

I think even without taking fully remote work into account. Using small offices in small cities is an untapped market of employees.There are plenty of 500k - 1M person cities that could support an office of 100-1000 engineers well. I don't see much benefit in these huge 10k, 20k+ office complexes when people still end up doing meetings on zoom because it takes too long.