4 ms·

USA is rich in universities. I wish people would focus less on the rankings and looking good credential aspect of college, and more on using it as an opportuni

by onos 4y ago

USA is rich in universities. I wish people would focus less on the rankings and looking good credential aspect of college, and more on using it as an opportunity to learn / actually getting good at something. If we did the latter, we’d realize that people could go to pretty much any university (or coursera!) and get a high quality education here.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
You are absolutely missing one of the primary points of US universities, which is to maintain a social hierarchy. I mean, if you just want to learn stuff and get a good education, there are loads of resources where you can do that, often for free or near free. College is about much more than just learning new things, and if that's the only framework through which you value a college education, you'll be doomed to misunderstand the institution.
- onos 4y ago
  Yeah you’re right, that is the aspect of uni that this article is about. Who gets to get the premo credential.
- Onanymous 4y ago
  Nonsense. Education is not about taking a course or reading bunch of books. The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. You can ask the community of course but the quality of community answers is more than often just trash.
  - 2devnull 4y ago
    I think you’ve defined a tutor. Tutors cost less than college tuition. And top professors answer emails from non-students, sometimes they teach for free on MOOCs. Perhaps you’re on a very narrow field where knowledge is extremely scarce, but that’s atypical.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      For the cost of a college education at some places you could likely hire a knowledgeable professor of the skill set you’re interested in to live with you for four years. Nobody will loan you money to do that, howvevr.
      - ALittleLight 4y ago
        People would probably loan you money for that if you have the income or collateral to support a loan.
  - preommr 4y ago
    > The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. Stuck on what? For an undergrad, those problems can easily be solved by going online or to a tutor for a fraction of the cost. And that's for STEM based problems, humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds. The best piece of advice I got was from one of my english highschool teachers who told me a story about how when he was in university he was getting graded really poorly on essays until he basically regurgitated what he thought the the professor wanted to hear. It's been a while since I've been to university, but I think it probably still holds.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      Now you know why businesses love university graduates! Being told what you want is a prime mover in business. Now back to my TPS reports.
    - aeonik 4y ago
      Another unique bonus of university education: in my undergrad one of the professors noticed that I cared about the subject material more than my classmates. Due to this he gave me opportunities to perform research in areas that I didn't even know existed. Had I not gone to a university I never would have been exposed to these areas of technology.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - necrotic_comp 4y ago
      "humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds" - maybe at some universities, but not at a good liberal arts school.
      - telotortium 4y ago
        Good liberal arts schools don't really exist in the US anymore, unless we're talking about something like St. John's College or maybe some Catholic universities. I believe the capture of university humanities departments by critical theory is pretty complete at this point, and the sciences are rapidly being colonized.
- bushbaba 4y ago
  You get 1000 resumes for a job. How do you drop 95% of the applicants. One easy way is to look at the University and GPA as a quick snuff test. After running that cheap low-pass filter you now only have 50 Resumes. You now spend ~3mins on each of those resumes to determine the 10 people you plan to interview. That's why university matters, it helps you get past the first level of screening. It's also fair of employers to assume that the average Top 25 university graduate is better than the AVERAGE bottom 50% university graduate.
  - catiopatio 4y ago
    There are far more effective ways to stand out as an applicant than your GPA and university — in particular, by actually contributing notable work to the field, but also by making social connections and leveraging those into a job. I didn’t even graduate from high school, but I’ve never struggled to find employment with the companies I wanted to work for. The idea of a degree as a first-pass filter is oversold at best.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
mjhay 4y ago
The highest quality education I received was at a community college. The undergraduate education I got after transferring to a well-regarded research shool was lower quality, with larger classes and professors who weren't incentivized to put effort into teaching.
nO0b 4y ago
Malcolm Gladwell explains why it's statistically FAR better to be among the smartest kids at a 2nd or 3rd tier school than struggling to get into some elite institution where you will be below average among your peers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc&t=220s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc&t=220s If you're borrowing money to pay for a degree, going to a school where you are not at the very top of the class is really taking a big risk.
- giardini 4y ago
  Thank you for posting Gladwell's talk, which should be required viewing for any young, bright and hopeful high-school graduate. I wish all my nephews and nieces had watched it.
- WalterBright 4y ago
  I thoroughly enjoyed being around students a lot smarter than me in college. I also enjoy working with people smarter and better educated than me. It's just more fun, and it also puts me on my best game.
- texaslonghorn5 4y ago
  that's such a loser mindset, you should want to be challenged and pushed by peers stronger than you edit: I agree that the first part of this comment is too harsh, see child thread
  - bushbaba 4y ago
    What! A 2nd tier school still has strong peers which you can surround yourself in. If you're at the top of a 2nd tier school you can push yourself to be near the PHD researchers and graduate students giving you similar academic peer rigor.
    - texaslonghorn5 4y ago
      I agree with you from an academic standpoint! Maybe my comment was too harsh, I think surrounding yourself with PHD researchers and graduate students counts as challenging and pushing yourself. But it's more fun when the people pushing you are your friends and peers. In contrast, how many PHD researchers with a spouse and kids want to study and get coffee with a 19 year old undergrad?

by onos 4y ago

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

You are absolutely missing one of the primary points of US universities, which is to maintain a social hierarchy. I mean, if you just want to learn stuff and get a good education, there are loads of resources where you can do that, often for free or near free. College is about much more than just learning new things, and if that's the only framework through which you value a college education, you'll be doomed to misunderstand the institution.

onos 4y ago
Yeah you’re right, that is the aspect of uni that this article is about. Who gets to get the premo credential.
Onanymous 4y ago
Nonsense. Education is not about taking a course or reading bunch of books. The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. You can ask the community of course but the quality of community answers is more than often just trash.
- 2devnull 4y ago
  I think you’ve defined a tutor. Tutors cost less than college tuition. And top professors answer emails from non-students, sometimes they teach for free on MOOCs. Perhaps you’re on a very narrow field where knowledge is extremely scarce, but that’s atypical.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    For the cost of a college education at some places you could likely hire a knowledgeable professor of the skill set you’re interested in to live with you for four years. Nobody will loan you money to do that, howvevr.
    - ALittleLight 4y ago
      People would probably loan you money for that if you have the income or collateral to support a loan.
- preommr 4y ago
  > The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. Stuck on what? For an undergrad, those problems can easily be solved by going online or to a tutor for a fraction of the cost. And that's for STEM based problems, humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds. The best piece of advice I got was from one of my english highschool teachers who told me a story about how when he was in university he was getting graded really poorly on essays until he basically regurgitated what he thought the the professor wanted to hear. It's been a while since I've been to university, but I think it probably still holds.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Now you know why businesses love university graduates! Being told what you want is a prime mover in business. Now back to my TPS reports.
  - aeonik 4y ago
    Another unique bonus of university education: in my undergrad one of the professors noticed that I cared about the subject material more than my classmates. Due to this he gave me opportunities to perform research in areas that I didn't even know existed. Had I not gone to a university I never would have been exposed to these areas of technology.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - necrotic_comp 4y ago
    "humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds" - maybe at some universities, but not at a good liberal arts school.
    - telotortium 4y ago
      Good liberal arts schools don't really exist in the US anymore, unless we're talking about something like St. John's College or maybe some Catholic universities. I believe the capture of university humanities departments by critical theory is pretty complete at this point, and the sciences are rapidly being colonized.
bushbaba 4y ago
You get 1000 resumes for a job. How do you drop 95% of the applicants. One easy way is to look at the University and GPA as a quick snuff test. After running that cheap low-pass filter you now only have 50 Resumes. You now spend ~3mins on each of those resumes to determine the 10 people you plan to interview. That's why university matters, it helps you get past the first level of screening. It's also fair of employers to assume that the average Top 25 university graduate is better than the AVERAGE bottom 50% university graduate.
- catiopatio 4y ago
  There are far more effective ways to stand out as an applicant than your GPA and university — in particular, by actually contributing notable work to the field, but also by making social connections and leveraging those into a job. I didn’t even graduate from high school, but I’ve never struggled to find employment with the companies I wanted to work for. The idea of a degree as a first-pass filter is oversold at best.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

mjhay 4y ago

The highest quality education I received was at a community college. The undergraduate education I got after transferring to a well-regarded research shool was lower quality, with larger classes and professors who weren't incentivized to put effort into teaching.

nO0b 4y ago

Malcolm Gladwell explains why it's statistically FAR better to be among the smartest kids at a 2nd or 3rd tier school than struggling to get into some elite institution where you will be below average among your peers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc&t=220s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UEwbRWFZVc&t=220s If you're borrowing money to pay for a degree, going to a school where you are not at the very top of the class is really taking a big risk.

giardini 4y ago
Thank you for posting Gladwell's talk, which should be required viewing for any young, bright and hopeful high-school graduate. I wish all my nephews and nieces had watched it.
WalterBright 4y ago
I thoroughly enjoyed being around students a lot smarter than me in college. I also enjoy working with people smarter and better educated than me. It's just more fun, and it also puts me on my best game.
texaslonghorn5 4y ago
that's such a loser mindset, you should want to be challenged and pushed by peers stronger than you edit: I agree that the first part of this comment is too harsh, see child thread
- bushbaba 4y ago
  What! A 2nd tier school still has strong peers which you can surround yourself in. If you're at the top of a 2nd tier school you can push yourself to be near the PHD researchers and graduate students giving you similar academic peer rigor.
  - texaslonghorn5 4y ago
    I agree with you from an academic standpoint! Maybe my comment was too harsh, I think surrounding yourself with PHD researchers and graduate students counts as challenging and pushing yourself. But it's more fun when the people pushing you are your friends and peers. In contrast, how many PHD researchers with a spouse and kids want to study and get coffee with a 19 year old undergrad?